[ADwD Spoilers] Hizdahr?

[Martin Alvito]

Hizdahr has some fun potential parallels with Lee Harvey Oswald.

I think that he acted alone in trying to take Dany out. I also think that he's a patsy, and the fall guy for the organization. I suspect that Barristan is really aiding the Harpy conspiracy in all of this (playing the Jack Ruby role - more irony), and that Hizdahr is being taken out as retaliation for the unsanctioned attempt on Dany and because he's generally proven himself to be too stupid to live. The result will be the consolidation of power firmly in the hands of Dany's enemies, which ultimately results in her being forced from Meereen whatever her heart would want.

[The King in the South]

The only other characters that really opposed him were the Shavepate and his Brazen Beats, and they did that because they didn't want to lose favor with Dany. I think he's fine personally and this whole Slaver's Bay Conflict is stupid. Dany should just kill them all or leave.

[RAAM]

"should just kill them all or leave"

because thats always the answer to everything and never ends badly, totally wont show her as a foreign tyrant

[Akhôrahil]

It's that 'lustful' look that's interesting.

He isn't passionate with Dany but with the prospect of some Dragon on Man violence he looks lustful - is he just obsessed with the theatre of violence?

It could be as simple as that there's going to be a dragon-killing -- which is not just awesome entertainment but also extremely symbolic for the descendants of Old Ghis -- in his very own fighting pit.

[trio]

My biggest problem is, who really even cares?

My biggest problem was how horrendously underwritten the character was. I mean, never in a thousand years did I think Dany would marry anyone in ADWD - but never in a MILLION years did I think that if she did, GRRM would basically write him in as broad a fashion as possible.

This is a man that one of the main characters has resolved to spend maybe the rest of her life with, ruling side by side. And we know ZERO about him by the end of the book. Except that he wants the fighting pits open, for fairly normal reasons.

I don't even remember what the guy looks like! Come On!!

And sure enough, in the immediate aftermath of ADWD, every single character in the books was discussed as infinitum - except Hizdahr, cos we didn't feel like we'd barely met him.

So we honestly haven't really a clue whether he betrayed Dany or not, cos we haven't really formed ANY opinion of him. Except that he jockeyed for the throne and got it, and fair play to him - why not?? He's fairly polite and respectful to Dany so far, and we've seen no hint that he may be a Closet Ass. But then we've seen no hint of anything under the surface, really - it seems GRRM just wasn't that interested in him.

I was, actually. I got a bit of a suprise when Dany chose him as he was just one of the background guys to me at that point, totally indistinguishable. But then I wanted to get to know about this guy that Dany had chosen. I was pretty disappointed not to find out anything, really.

[Sasha Steelsong]

He is probably guilty, although they are all as bad as one another. I would trust Hizdahr as much as I would trust the Shavepate. They are all the same; plotting and schemeing and manipulating. The Green Grace is the worst of them. Thats why Dany doesnt belong in that place.

I agree. I think he is guilty, I think he had every intention of rulling the city outright and getting Dany out of the way and could even see signs of it, like the Brazen Beasts looking to Hizdahr when Dany gave them an order. If Dany is their queen, getting her husband's approval to follow her orders is unnecssary. That said I think all of the others would push Dany out of the way if they could because she isn't one of them (and never will be - though it took till the end of the book for her to figure that out).

[Fredwin]

He obviously has no respect for Danny now that they are officially married. This was quite evident when he all but dismissed Barristan outright.. and as we all know that is something you do not do.

[DragonsHungry]

My biggest problem was how horrendously underwritten the character was. I mean, never in a thousand years did I think Dany would marry anyone in ADWD - but never in a MILLION years did I think that if she did, GRRM would basically write him in as broad a fashion as possible.

This is a man that one of the main characters has resolved to spend maybe the rest of her life with, ruling side by side. And we know ZERO about him by the end of the book. Except that he wants the fighting pits open, for fairly normal reasons.

I don't even remember what the guy looks like! Come On!!

And sure enough, in the immediate aftermath of ADWD, every single character in the books was discussed as infinitum - except Hizdahr, cos we didn't feel like we'd barely met him.

So we honestly haven't really a clue whether he betrayed Dany or not, cos we haven't really formed ANY opinion of him. Except that he jockeyed for the throne and got it, and fair play to him - why not?? He's fairly polite and respectful to Dany so far, and we've seen no hint that he may be a Closet Ass. But then we've seen no hint of anything under the surface, really - it seems GRRM just wasn't that interested in him.

I was, actually. I got a bit of a suprise when Dany chose him as he was just one of the background guys to me at that point, totally indistinguishable. But then I wanted to get to know about this guy that Dany had chosen. I was pretty disappointed not to find out anything, really.

Maybe he is the Prologue POV in the next book. We'll get to know him in depth for that chapter... :thumbsup:

[Mark Antony]

Maybe he is the Prologue POV in the next book. We'll get to know him in depth for that chapter... :thumbsup:

i would actually like this. :thumbsup:

[Frey Takes The Crown]

Where do people get this idea that the sons of the harpy are a real, vast conspiracy, working against Dany?

There has to be some organising force behind them all, if only because they stop the attacks as soon as Hizdahr gets a chance to marry Dany.

[Frey Takes The Crown]

Where do people get this idea that the sons of the harpy are a real, vast conspiracy, working against Dany?

There has to be some organising force behind them all, if only because they stop the attacks as soon as Hizdahr gets a chance to marry Dany.

[King_Baratheon]

Reznack mo Reznack has to be the harpy, I don't think "beware the perfumed seneschal" was talking about Varys; if anything he's def a Targ loyalist. Reznack meant to poison Dany and Hizdahr both is yet to be determined. I have a feeling Hizdahr is just a cat's paw at best, perhaps even a completely innocent patsy (though I doubt it). If GRRM really wants to shake it up I think it'll end up being Shakaz because he wanted Mereen completely torn to pieces so he could end up scraping them up with his brazen beasts when Dany gets the F out of there.

[trio]

Anyone know why Barristan said to Hizdahr at the end "Did you ever love her?"

WTF?? Er...was he supposed to? It was a political alliance and they were married about a month. Barristan certainly knew that Dany didn't give a damn about Hizdahr; why the contempt that Hizdahr didn't love her?

[Fleet]

Hizdahr definitely knows more than he is leading Barristan to believe, but he is a weak man and was very intimidated by Barristan (especially after seeing him in combat) so there may be some truth in what he said.

Either way, if he was lying or not. I think Barristan should let Shakaz extract the truth from him in the ways he knows best. I know Barristan's honor will get in the way of this decision though.

my first post here. I waited until I finished the books before registering. Great site and forum!

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I think that he's guilty, but might not be the head person. Green Grace seems like the brains behind it all.

[Duskfire]

It'll be amusing if its actually the shavepate behind them all, and Semly unwittingly helped him. I wouldnt be surprised by that at all actually.

Thats the problem with Meereen. Its full of characters who plot and scheme against each other who for the most part we dont care about. Kings Landing in book 2 was awesome, because it involved Tyrion and the like and involved actual events that were important. Now though we have the Green Grace and the Shavepate and Reznecel and Hizdahr and the Yunkaii and the billion sellsword captains that got named all scheming for a piece of pie that readers couldnt care less about.

[DragonsHungry]

It'll be amusing if its actually the shavepate behind them all, and Semly unwittingly helped him. I wouldnt be surprised by that at all actually.

Thats the problem with Meereen. Its full of characters who plot and scheme against each other who for the most part we dont care about. Kings Landing in book 2 was awesome, because it involved Tyrion and the like and involved actual events that were important. Now though we have the Green Grace and the Shavepate and Reznecel and Hizdahr and the Yunkaii and the billion sellsword captains that got named all scheming for a piece of pie that readers couldnt care less about.

Exactly. The various machinations of Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Varys were compelling, fascinating, and interesting. I don't care for Meereen, find its main characters lackluster, which I think have lessened Dany as a character. Does it matter who is the Harpy? No.

I would just be as happy if Hizwhatishisname was the Prologue POV under Victarion's axe.

I am hoping GRRM does a tribute to history and the Ironborn show up and sack Meereen in a one sided battle in a tribute to the Viking sack of the Library of Lindisfarne.

[Winged Black Dread]

I don't care for Mereen, Yunkai or Astapor. It adds absolutely nothing to the main plot, it just make Daenerys seem more and more stupid with all that "my people" thing. That is not her people, her people is a million miles away and she is ignoring them by caring for cities and civilizations which have nothing to do with her.

The thing that bothers me the most is that she conquers Astapor by force using Drogon and to trick the master once he gave her the unsullied, but when force was needed, mainly against the yunkish slave armies; which are numerous, but have no real training except for the sellswords; she simply ignores it because she wants "peace for her people and city" which isn't her people nor her city. I mean, WTF, you bascically sack Astapor but don't want to fight against the yunkish dudes?

I also hate the fact that no one wants her in Essos, they've given her like 3 or 4 oportunities to get the hell out of there and she is no willig to face the fact that she doesn't belong there and only the freedmen want her, all the other cities there basically want her dead, and at this rate, I also want her dead because she simply is waiting for Westeros to magically fall on her lap while she is a million miles away.

Unless she starts marching west early on TWOW, i don't see ASOIF ending in two books.

Anyway.... I think Hidzahr is well aware of the poisoned locusts and he is not only a puppet, he is deeper in this thing of the Harpy.

[The Oncoming Storm]

Hizdahr, along with the rest of Meereen, should be destroyed.

And if the shavepate is a traitor, he'll soon meet an angry Barristan and his sword...

[Envie]

It's that 'lustful' look that's interesting.

He isn't passionate with Dany but with the prospect of some Dragon on Man violence he looks lustful - is he just obsessed with the theatre of violence? Or is it lust to see the dragons dead and the threat to the Meereenesse way of life ended?

Hizdahr seems pretty limp except for his pit fighter passion. Remember, that's what brought him to Daenerys' court time after time, to beg her to allow the fighting pits to reopen. It's always been the one thing he wanted more than anything else, even Daenerys herself. A live dragon, in the pit, being fought by his precious prize fighters is more than he could have ever hoped for ... but he underestimated how strong Drogon had become in his short absence. I'm guessing since the other two were chained up, he thought Drogon would be an easy kill and that would have brought more fame, glory and power to his fighting pits than any money could buy. Think of how many people would pay to come back and see that again if they had managed to slay a dragon and he advertised two more ready to fight? Had Quentyn not gone down there and gotten toasted, I think it would have been Hizdahr trying it next - or at least his favorite fighters... to see if they could manhandle them into the fighting pits. With Daenerys MIA, he definitely wanted those dragons for the ultimate death match. :thumbsdown: