[ADwD Spoilers] Hizdahr?

[theladyinspring]

Is Hizdahr really a bad guy? By the end of ADWD it seems Barristan is convinced that Hizdahr tried to kill Dany, so the knight makes his move on Hizdahr. In her final chapter, Dany realizes Belwas was poisoned and remembers Hizdahr urging her to eat the locusts, although she doesn't see what reason he would have to kill her. But GRRM seems to intentionally leave out any hard evidence that would condemn Hizdahr.

Dany is disturbed because Hizdahr said to kill the dragons, and he said it with a "lustful" look. But is this antipathy toward the dragons a sign that Hizdahr is bad news, or a normal reaction for someone who is watching one attacking his people? Ghiscari have no love for Valyria and its dragons. Dany herself had two of them locked away.

I think our introduction to Hizdahr is rather sympathetic. He comes across as wise, reasonable, and affably persistent on the matter of the fighting pits. I wished Dany would give in and compromise because he had me swayed on their value.

Another point against Hizdahr is his ability to bring peace with the Harpies. It looks suspicious because his success might be because he is one of them. On the other hand, that was his job and if there was no chance he could do it then why ask him? It's the whole point of him being fit to be the king: the people will listen to him. Again, GRRM leaves the situation ambiguous with no hard evidence either way.

Could Barristan be wrong? The Brazen Beasts were the ones who convinced him, and we don't really know what their motivation is. When Barristan confronted him, he swore he'd never hurt Dany, although he also comes off as resentful about her lusting for Daario. Are there more signs of his guilt or could it be misdirection? What do people really think of him?

[arya_underfoot]

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!!!!!!!!!

Once he has gained the throne, he doesn't need Dany or the dragons. He obviously has strong support amongst the Sons of the Harpy- that's all he needs to hold Meereen.

[Duskfire]

He is probably guilty, although they are all as bad as one another. I would trust Hizdahr as much as I would trust the Shavepate. They are all the same; plotting and schemeing and manipulating. The Green Grace is the worst of them. Thats why Dany doesnt belong in that place.

[aeoleron9]

Knowing GRRM, I'm pretty certain Hizdahr is a red herring. Even if he really had a hand in the conspiracy, he's most likely just a puppet/figurehead for the real Harpy. I suspect the Green Grace a lot more atm, given Dany's worst enemies are usually female...

[TheEvilKing]

I think the locusts were intended for both Dany and Hizdahr - probably from whoever the Harpy is. I don't think the Great Masters particularly wanted a King.

I suspect Reznak or the Green Grace.

[you wouldn't know me]

I think he looks very obviously guilty which means he is probably innocent lol I don't really like him either way :/

[HighwayStar]

Add me to the number of those who don't believe that Hizdahr is responsible for trying to poison Dany. That would be too obvious, for one thing, and Martin is not exactly a predictable writer (whatever his other shortcomings). I wouldn't call him a 100% good guy either, because he clearly had his own agenda for marrying Dany (being king must have sounded appealing to him), but I also believe that we should look elsewhere for the Harpy - and the Green Grace seems the ideal candidate to me. I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the three betrayals prophesied in the House of the Undying, since Dany counts her as a friend (and friendship is a form of love).

[Lummel]

It's that 'lustful' look that's interesting.

He isn't passionate with Dany but with the prospect of some Dragon on Man violence he looks lustful - is he just obsessed with the theatre of violence? Or is it lust to see the dragons dead and the threat to the Meereenesse way of life ended?

[rhaze]

My biggest problem is, who really even cares? Kill him Barristan. Kill him and everyone in Mereen. Leave one big dust bowl and get back to Westeros.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I don't think anyone in Mereen is truly loyal to Dany. Hizdahr and the Green Grace are obviously conspiring together with the other great families of Mereen, though what their end game is I don't know.

But I think the who who tried to poison Dany was the Shavepate. He was probably targeting Hizdahr as well since he took control of the Brazen Beasts from him. Shavepate is a power hungry opportunist (the first to declare loyalty to the new conqueror and constantly recommended the execution of other great families) and he stood to lose a lot should Hizdahr and Dany stay married. He probably figured with one or both of them dead he could seize control of the Brazen Beasts again and take the city. Then he would have executed the other great families and revived slavery to appease the Yunkai.

When his plan failed he had to go to Barristan to help him take out Hizdahr.

[A Wolf of Winterfell]

I would also concur with those who believe Hizdhar is involved in some way. Although I don't know how privy he is to his level of involvement, I suspect he is nothing more than a cat's paw. He's being used, more than likely by the Sons of the Harpy. The Green Grace is a particularly suspicious character in that she is the most inconspicuous of Dany's advisers. Her advice, her council, and her willingness to help come a little too easily. She has lulled Dany into trusting her; Dany did marry Hizdhar at her behest. If the Sons of the Harpy have a leader it's the Green Grace. Harpies are female after all. Hizdhar could be completely unaware of the more insidious plot unfolding around him, but he was definitely offered up as Dany's consort and king for a reason.

[Ethan Dirtch]

Hizdahr is definitely guilty of association, of collusion. It's unlikely he was the only one to have a hand in it, though; after all, it took some convincing to get Dany to marry him. They simply did not count on Barristan remaining loyal to the *queen*, and not to the *kingdom*, and they underestimated the determined hatred of the Shavepate for for the Loraqs.

What settles me on Hizdahr at least being possibly involved was his reactions to Barristan's questioning. That wasn't a man pleading innocence, that was a man trying to cast blame on others.

As to people loyal to Dany, a majority of freed slaves/freed men are terribly loyal to her, as a lot of them still called out for her return after she left. Whether that holds under an even longer siege, the possibility of war, and the continued presence of the bloody flux, as well as the actions of the dragons...I mean, if all your livestock and food stores are going to feeding two monsters...I'd be pretty pissed if I was among them, lol.

[MtnLion]

I think the locusts were intended for both Dany and Hizdahr - probably from whoever the Harpy is. I don't think the Great Masters particularly wanted a King.

I suspect Reznak or the Green Grace.

Naw, the locusts are quite tasty, but they disagree with me ... Hizdahr knew, if he didn't make the arrangements, personally.

[Ethan Dirtch]

Naw, the locusts are quite tasty, but they disagree with me ... Hizdahr knew, if he didn't make the arrangements, personally.

And, even if that was the case, he was still complicit in that he didn't try to stop anyone else from eating the locusts. So, he's still guilty.

[RAAM]

He is probably guilty, although they are all as bad as one another. I would trust Hizdahr as much as I would trust the Shavepate. They are all the same; plotting and schemeing and manipulating. The Green Grace is the worst of them. Thats why Dany doesnt belong in that place.

because we all know how westeros is so much better with such honest characters like LF and varys, those are men you can really trust, especially when your about to depose a wrongful claimant to the throne

[Argonath Diver]

Every single time this character talked, was described, or was generally involved, I thought "Jesus Christ, can we get on with it and get this story back to crap people care about?"

I don't think that 15 years ago, GRRM planned to develop such a thoroughly uninteresting secondary civilization in his world.

I've softened on much of my bad reactions to the book through my re-read and much board-lurking, but I still have zero interest in anything Mereenese, or Slavers Bay in general. Should have toured through this garbage in 2 chapters, in my opinion.

Drogo to this dude? Come on.

[RAAM]

hey, some meereneese things are interesting, like their...um...dog recipes?

[MinotaurWarrior]

Where do people get this idea that the sons of the harpy are a real, vast conspiracy, working against Dany?

The evidence is: People who represent social change are killed, and near their corpses a symbol of the old glory of Ghis is found. The shavepate, a man who seems to believe the confessions he tortures out of prisoners, believes there must be a conspiracy. He calls this conspiracy "the sons of the harpy." Based off the name that he himself made up he assumes there must be an actual Harpy leading them.

I'm not convinced. I think things are much more simple, and much more complex.

First, a bunch of people are pissed about the recent upheaval, and so they go out and lynch some blokes. After they're done, they leave some graffiti behind. A bunch of other upset former masters like what they see, and imitate it.

The shavepate is a cruel, hateful person. He was one before Dany showed up, and continued to be one after. He latched on to her because he had not yet made her into an enemy, and tried to turn her against all his enemies, by making them seem like her enemies. Her support and respect genuinely made him like her. He genuinely seems to believe in his own paranoid delusions.

The perfumed seneschal is a suck up. He probably doesn't care one way or another who's enslaved and who's free so long as he's comfortable.

The Green Grace is the highest ranking holy woman, and an old lady from an old empire. She's learned wisdom enough not to openly defy the silver-haired woman with an army and three dragons, but she certainly didn't suddenly have her eyes opened by Dany's appearance. She was plotting from day one to undo everything Dany had done, and bring Meereen back to the way it was. This plotting probably revolved more around communication with the Yunkai'i / making Dany into nothing more than Hizdhar's Queen, and less around organizing petty murders.

Hizdahr, was, I think, completely honest with Dany. He was frustrated with how the Ghiscari were holding themselves back with their Tokars and fancy hair styles. He knew that things would have to change so that they could move out of Old Ghis's shadow and start making progress again. Dany's overthrow of Slaver's Bay gave Hizdahr's ambitions a chance to become reality. Step one in his ambition? Take up this new-fangled westerosi office of the Monarch that Dany has just introduced. Preferably as sole Monarch.

[Alaric Storm]

Hizdahr is a patsy, though definitely not innocent. look to the shavepate, who's in a perfect place to manipulate Dany's pursuit for the SoH. and yah, she should be getting the fuck outta Meereen once she has the boats for it.

[pow]

Hizdahr is really bad in bed. I get the feeling hes a love to hate character.