[ADwD Spoilers] Sansa and Tyrion

[Wouter]

GRRM's website says that he is doing a TWOW reading at Worldcon so fingers crossed that he chooses a Sansa chapter. :) At least that will give us new material to theorize with, and put some theories to bed.

It may well be. What material has GRRM completed, do we know for sure?

I certainly hope it's not an Aeron chapter. Besides Sansa, what else would be OK to get some new juicy stuff? A Brienne chapter I suppose (to get that Jaime cliffhanger out of the way), or an Asha one assuming it would tell us what really happened with Stannis' army. I doubt we will get a quick solution to Jon's situation so probably not a Melisandre chapter or anything like that.

New Arya is possible too, but I rather hope not as she wasn't in any kind of cliffhanger, she's far removed from the main storyline and we just had new material on her. A Sansa chapter should at least give us an idea of how she thinks about LF's plans, particularly regarding Sweetrobyn's health and the marriage plans.

[Alexia]

I'm pretty sure that Arianne, Sansa, and the Damphair have completed chapters.

Sansa makes the most sense. Nobody cares about the Damphair (so far as I know) and we just saw Dorne. I'd think he'd go for Sansa or Sam (and I don't think any Sam chapters are done yet) since they didn't appear in ADWD.

I want to know how Sansa reacts to news of Cersei's Great Nude Parade, to her supposed betrothal, to LF's plans to kill Sweetrobin, if Brynden shows up, et al. And she is a fairly crucial Stark character so I think hope it'll be her.

[littlebird_]

I think it will be one of chapters he completed but had to move out but it won't be anything that resolves a cliffhanger from ADWD.

[Jon AS]

Well, Quentyn was exactly in the same situation and turned out to be a decent guy as well - still look at what that brought him though.

Quentyn wasn't really the same. The first desciption we get of him likens him to Doran Martell, who really isn't all that dashing. That was Oberyn's part, after all.

Nobody cares about the Damphair

Damn straight. I really only want to learn about the Iron Islands from Asha's or Theon's perspective. Unless he's the prologue, I could do without ever seeing the world through crazy old Aeron's eyes again.

[Bar Keep]

Sansa and Sam would be good picks for the reading because they might not contain any spoilers for the people who haven't finished ADWD yet.

I also don't care about Damphair but I am curious to know what Euron did to him as a kid.

[Jon AS]

I also don't care about Damphair but I am curious to know what Euron did to him as a kid.

I can imagine, and I really don't want any details.:stillsick:

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

I really don't care about Sansa, but I think her chapter wis most likely, since it won't have any ADWD spoilers. Aeron would be the best, IMHO, since it can throw some light on the situation in the north, but precisely for this reason it seems unlikely. Arianne also would be nice, since she will probably hear about Aegon.

[lady crackhead]

I can imagine, and I really don't want any details.:stillsick:

Did you ever hear about those barrels with holes in them that they had on pirate ships?

[ladysghost]

Much has been made of Sansa being used as Littlefinger's pawn as the narrative progresses - what LF seems to assume is that Tyrion will roll over and die - something he has managed not to do thus far. Moreover, Tyrion seems oddly nostalgic about his wife, thinking on one or two occasions in ADwD that he missed her. (Granted, Sansa at the outset seems relieved not to have to maintain the pretense of her marriage) Is it out of the realm of possibility to envision a reconciliation of this unlikely odd couple?

does everyone think the hound is totally done? i know last we saw him he was digging a grave at the monastery, repenting. but i've always thought if there was a beauty and the beast scenario it would be the hound and sansa, she still thinks about him, hovering over her, singing for him, and he went back into a flea-bottom riot to save her. i hope the hound comes back, i like him, oddly enough. so does sansa.

[Silverin]

does everyone think the hound is totally done? i know last we saw him he was digging a grave at the monastery, repenting. but i've always thought if there was a beauty and the beast scenario it would be the hound and sansa, she still thinks about him, hovering over her, singing for him, and he went back into a flea-bottom riot to save her. i hope the hound comes back, i like him, oddly enough. so does sansa.

No. Dont forget Bran's vision. About Arya and Sansa, and with the three shadows: hound, golden armor and headless knight.

Personally this is one of the storyline I am most interested in. It includes Sansa, Sandor, Jaime and Arya. I just cant wait how exactly will this happen.

[Gogossos]

No. Dont forget Bran's vision. About Arya and Sansa, and with the three shadows: hound, golden armor and headless knight.

Personally this is one of the storyline I am most interested in. It includes Sansa, Sandor, Jaime and Arya. I just cant wait how exactly will this happen.

Well, just Sansa and Arya meeting will do it for me. GRRM make it happen!

[Alexia]

does everyone think the hound is totally done? i know last we saw him he was digging a grave at the monastery, repenting. but i've always thought if there was a beauty and the beast scenario it would be the hound and sansa, she still thinks about him, hovering over her, singing for him, and he went back into a flea-bottom riot to save her. i hope the hound comes back, i like him, oddly enough. so does sansa.

I'm sure that he'll return, else GRRM would have just killed him off. He is too important in Sansa's thoughts, methinks he comes back soon.

Well, just Sansa and Arya meeting will do it for me. GRRM make it happen!

I'm thinking that Arya's apprenticeship takes her back to Westeros -- but I was thinking that she might go to the Citadel and intersect with Sam. That would be one way to start getting involved with the Others' plotline.

[measter Marto]

I know it is strange, but this is my favorite couple from the whole series!

I really hope GRRM will let them reconcile, it would be perfect…

I loved how in ADWD Tyrion’s story with Penny was somehow connected to his feelings for Sansa, he saw the parallels between them and sometimes even envied their constant hope. And in the end, when Tyrion thought “My wife, I miss my wife, the wife I hardly knew.” I just died, it was just my favorite quote :D

[voodooqueen126]

Doubt it; I tend to think that the rationale behind the annulment was probably that Tyrion was a minor child and thus did not have the right to consent. It is always possible that Tywin didn't bother to have it properly annulled (though I still think he did, it seems to me that he would have just killed Tysha otherwise) and therefore the marriage to Sansa is invalid. However, if she goes for grounds beyond the non-consummation one (which is best for her, as it establishes her virginity) it seems that she might go for the grounds that her marriage is invalid because Robb Stark (the head of her House) did not give his consent, she was unable to give meaningful consent due to her age, and the Lannisters did not have the right to make a marriage on her behalf. Of course, this would necessitate a total crash and burn of the current Lannister regime but face it, we all know that is coming.

I have read a chapter of this book and Sansa has a really good case for an annulment

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Medieval-Women-Katherine-Lewis/dp/0750915862/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313575097&sr=8-1

[Alexia]

I have read a chapter of this book and Sansa has a really good case for an annulment

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Medieval-Women-Katherine-Lewis/dp/0750915862/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313575097&sr=8-a1

I saw you mention it in the other Sansa thread and popped it on my Amazon wish list. I'm not sure when I'll get around to reading it, but learning more about medieval annulment/divorce customs, et cetera, definitely intrigues me. Thanks for the rec.

[trio]

And in the end, when Tyrion thought “My wife, I miss my wife, the wife I hardly knew.” I just died, it was just my favorite quote :D

Don't want to be Major Buzzkill here, but I think that quote was referring to Tysha if I remember correctly.

[1234567]

Don't want to be Major Buzzkill here, but I think that quote was referring to Tysha if I remember correctly.

Ditto. Also as much as both characters deserve someone nice in their lives, I don't think they are compatible as people. Ironically Tyrion is more the hopeless romantic now, while Sansa is becoming more and more cynical about the men who are interested in her.

[Wouter]

Don't want to be Major Buzzkill here, but I think that quote was referring to Tysha if I remember correctly.

It's actually not entirely clear to which wife it refers. Here is the entire quote:

"What do you miss, Halfman?”

Jaime, thought Tyrion. Shae. Tysha. My wife, I miss my wife, the wife I hardly knew.

Because of the point between "Tysha" and "my wife", rather than a comma, it is up in the air if "the wife he hardly knew" is a repeat of Tysha (he didn't repeat Jaime or Shae, though) or another person. Both Sansa and Tysha can be said to be "wives he hardly knew", Tysha because he knew her all of 3 weeks or so when they were 13, and Sansa because he never actually talked with her except about some generalities.

People seem to be sure he is talking about Tysha because they are convinced he isn't missing Sansa at all I suppose, but I would not agree this can be concluded based on the text only.

Earlier instances in ADWD did show Tyrion being bitter about Sansa, like the "all the girls cry when I kiss them" which was aimed squarely at her. One could say Tyrion has nothing to miss about Sansa considering how things were (and she ran away from him), but maybe Tyrion still misses the idea of her anyway (and is bitter about it not working the way he would like to imagine it). After all, he kinda hates both Shae and Jaime but also misses them so his emotions can be complex.

[Alexia]

Tysha fits "the wife I barely knew" far better than Sansa. He knew Tysha for two weeks. Sansa was his hostage for a year before he married her, and he saw her on a regular basis in the Red Keep. Then he had a couple months of marriage to her, climbing into her bed every night and eating his meals with her.

[Wouter]

Tysha fits "the wife I barely knew" far better than Sansa. He knew Tysha for two weeks. Sansa was his hostage for a year before he married her, and he saw her on a regular basis in the Red Keep. Then he had a couple months of marriage to her, climbing into her bed every night and eating his meals with her.

I think both could fit, Tysha for the reasons you state, Sansa because he never got further than skindeep with her. It's true he knew Sansa for far longer, but I'm quite sure he knew a lot more about Tysha's deeper thoughts/feelings/ambitions than he knew about Sansa's. In fact, that he could think - even for a second - that Sansa maybe was jealous about Margaery marrying Joffrey shows just how badly he knew her (likewise for him not having a clue she was working on an escape plan, he never doubted her word about praying in the Gods Wood).

Tyrion and Tysha didn't know each other for long, but they seem to have made every effort to get to know each other. Sansa, OTOH, was as closed as an oyster with him and Tyrion himself closed up to her as well (thinking she couldn't be trusted).

Granted, one would wonder why Tyrion would then possibly miss Sansa, but I still think this quote can't be 100% certain be said to be about Tysha, Tyrion's emotions being quite unreadable at times and his feelings on Sansa left quite vague in ADWD. The way it was written seems to leave it deliberately ambiguous.

However, Tyrion does explicitly mention that he misses Tysha and then mentioning her again as his wife seems overkill. He didn't add "my brother, my brother, I miss the brother who lied to me" to his missing Jaime.

I'm just not sure who Tyrion is referring to. Would be an interesting question that Martin probably wouldn't answer.