Jojen Reed's fate? (ADWD Spoilers)

[Gendels Children]

wow this is super interesting, I hadn't actually considered it before but given what ive read here I thik its a very strong possibility. so im actually going to re-read some of Brans chapter right now!... damn my other books they can wait! this is ASOIAF we're talking about here! one need to have their priorities straight :D

[Night'sQueen]

I had not even considered this as a possibility, but I have to admit it could be valid.

Of all the horrific things that happen in these books, Bran consuming Jojen is too much. Hope this is not true.

[Uruk-Hello]

I don't know if anyone has already brought this up but I came across this historical tidbit and couldn't help but see Jojen and Meera in it. Seeing as how GRRM is fond of English history perhaps this offers some clues.

http://en.wikipedia....dren_of_Woolpit

Quickly summed it's a story from medieval England of two children with green skin that claim to have come from an underground world. While that's of course not Jojen and Meera's story, GRRM doesn't do 1-1 translations and could have served as inspiration for the greenseer plotline.

Side observation, Woolpit's (the village) name means a "pit for trapping wolves". The two green children just finished leading a wolf who can't walk to...a pit.

[alienarea]

Side observation, Woolpit's (the village) name means a "pit for trapping wolves". The two green children just finished leading a wolf who can't walk to...a pit.

Yes. Maybe the CotF want Bran because he is still a boy - more vicious without feeling guilty, untainted by love, ...

Jojen could be the John the Baptist to Bran's Christ-like role. From the dark side.

[The Great Cornholio!]

no.

[howardh51]

Like the theory. And don't think GRRM has gone through all this trouble with Bran to have him live out his days looking at things through Weirwoods... Def think there is something BIG coming from all this trouble of keeping Bran alive!!!

[OrcusOfUndeath]

People seem to naturally assume that the "red veins" in the paste were blood. Bran said that he was unsure what it was but that under a torch's light looked like blood. Light from a torch would make everything appear more red.

I think that this is a misdirection by Martin. It likely just weirwood sap.

Also greensight is not a spell (like growing and summoning a Shadow Assassin is for example), for which you would need sacrifice. Its an innate ability, which had to be awoken. So I don't think that sacrifice pattern fits into this.

[Rooseman]

I think the paste simply was weirwood-paste. But I do think that Jojen was sacrificed over a weirwood.

Jojen's only purpose so far had been to get Bran to Bloodraven, so his part in this story is pretty much done I would say. We also know, that Jojen knows the time and circumstances of his death. And the closer they got to the 3 Eyed Crow, the more depressed Jojen grew. Also, Bran saw the COTF perform a blood sacrifice over a weirwood tree. And Jojen isn't seen any more after they take Bran's abilities to the next level.

All taken together I'd say it's a solid assumption that he was killed. Not at all confirmed, and it very well might be bullshit, but so far that's the most likely theory for me.

[Not a kneeler]

There seems to be some truth in this theory but whatever that truth is, it does not involve cannibalism.

Sadly, I think Jojen has passed away.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

On multiple occasions Theon believes he hears a voice in the godswood at Winterfell. Some think this is actually Bran, who is exhibiting greater power than Bloodraven by being able to communicate through the trees.

On one occasion, (probably after Bran's last PoV in real time, but it's hard to tell) Theon believes he hears sobbing, then convinces himself that he is hearing Jeyne. Could Theon be hearing Bran cry over Jojen's death?

[JonnyBastard]

Much like the, "Is Arya really blind?" question that is revealed in adwd,

this theory will most likely be revealed as either true or false very early on in twow.

If true, it just reaffirms my gut reaction to Bloodraven, which is that he isn't a very good "person."

I hate the atmosphere present in the cave. Bran needs to get the seven hells out of there.

[JonnyBastard]

I'm new to this, but I agree. It really starts to make sense if you believe Coldshamds = Night's King. Perhaps he's warging BR? Maybe they just need Bran to bring the wall down? Then betray him and lead the others south? Bran's not really in a position to fight back

[ObsidianEdge]

The significance of the taste and description of Weirwood paste seemed more like it was implying the WW trees were more semi- animal, with characteristics of humans, than other trees. That semi-animal nature could be seen in its red colors and the human-like characteristics could be seen its expression of words and emotions and could be experienced viscerally in the paste.

I think the Jojen paste idea is interesting but in the end, it's good old fashioned Martinesque misdirection. It's what we like about him, right?

[Rooseman]

I'm new to this, but I agree. It really starts to make sense if you believe Coldshamds = Night's King. Perhaps he's warging BR? Maybe they just need Bran to bring the wall down? Then betray him and lead the others south? Bran's not really in a position to fight back

I'm more inclined to think that he won't be tricked into helping the Others against his will, but rather does it voluntarily. I see a road ahead of him, where he'll grow more and more estranged from humanity. A Dr. Manhattan kind of thing, you know.

[Persicaria]

A very disturbing theory, you have put out there. It seems to have some textual evidence as well. No one is safe in this story, cept for Arya (or that maybe a rumor). From my reading it seemed that Jojen and Meera believed his death lay back on his way home, but prophecy is a weird things. perhaps a figure like Jojen , a warged Jojen corpse makes it home, but who knows. The thing is I can see Jojen sacrificing himself and lying to his sister about that, but from what I can see of their bond I feel he would never allow Meera to follow if it meant her death as well. I can't imagine Meera being okay with her brother being a human sacrifice either. The tunnels may have some other importance, something else that Bran, Jojen and Meera have to deal with. Remember the story Ygritte tells Jon about the wild clan that became trapped in the dark tunnels(turning into cannibals to survive). Stories have a way of coming back to haunt us. There may still be a purpose than for them in that dark cave connected by many dark tunnels.

[JonnyBastard]

I'm more inclined to think that he won't be tricked into helping the Others against his will, but rather does it voluntarily. I see a road ahead of him, where he'll grow more and more estranged from humanity. A Dr. Manhattan kind of thing, you know.

An even more disturbing theory 0.o

[yomi]

Scary theory...

I always had a bad feeling about the paste as well, but with a different theory as reason behind it: BR has weirwood stuff growing out of him, right? And Bran just ate weirwood seeds. I expect them to grow within him and finally out of him, bonding him to his seat. His physical movability (sure, he couldn't walk, but he still could be carried around) would then be sacrificed for a greater greenseeing range.

[BozSkagosi]

One thing to consider: Unlike many modern readers (and probably most Americans), the taste of blood would have been well known to Bran. It's a common ingredient in many meals worldwide. Blood is traditional food in "Earth" dishes like blood sausage or coq au vin and certainly would have been an equally common ingredient in Westerosi dishes as well. He would recognize the taste - especially if no effort was made to camoflage the taste. I think that it is important to note that the description is merely that the substance looked like blood instead of tasting like blood.

My reading of the passage is that Bran/Brandon (as the tree) could taste the blood in the dirt after the sacrifice.

ETA: I do like the literary possibilities if it is true however. I can see Meera coming after Bran/COTF for revenge. Bran would then have to step in and defeat her, thus turning himself to the Dark Side/COTF/Others/BR?whatever is really going on. It presents a nice logical break with the known world, if everyone from his old life is dead by his hand.

[binga]

The only problem I have this whole Bran turns to the Dark Side, or Darth Bran theory is that Bran is a very young kid. Does he really have the emotional maturity to handle all this and grow quickly into an evil character? Is his story of any value if he can't fully comprehend the darkness around him? It seems like Bran should be a teenager for a plot like this. If Jojen was sacrificed how can Bran have a meaningful conversation with Bloodraven about the value of one innocent life versus the value of the realm? All he can do is cry.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I think both Meera and Jojen are dead to be honest.