Your Monster, Brandon Stark

[falsepod]

Wow, that's quite a catch there - at least I had missed that he differs from a wight in such an important physical way. I would say that's quite a worthy first post. Welcome to the forum and let many more follow! :cheers:

Thanks man :D

[The Great Cornholio!]

The black eyes are an indicator that he's not a wight of the others. He's something else. Possibly some sort of guardian made by Brandon Stark (the Builder).

In any case he's not Benjen. Cold Hands is noted for his size, as I recall that was not a Benjen physical trait. Nobody ever described him as being a big dude.

[falsepod]

The black eyes are an indicator that he's not a wight of the others. He's something else. Possibly some sort of guardian made by Brandon Stark (the Builder).

In any case he's not Benjen. Cold Hands is noted for his size, as I recall that was not a Benjen physical trait. Nobody ever described him as being a big dude.

can you find the quote for that? its not something i noticed

[The Great Cornholio!]

can you find the quote for that? its not something i noticed

For which statement?

[DragonSpawn]

By the way: Bloodraven could easily be Brandon Starks Monster...

Breaking it down:

• Bloodraven was the main champion for Targ vs Blackfyre
  
• He was eventually sent to the Black Cells by a Targ - greatful much?
  
• He was later sent to the Wall as an 'honour gaurd' to accompany a friend of his - Aemon Targaryen.
  
• Bloodraven is a Blackwood
  
• The Blackwoods used to be Kings
  
• The Blackwoods are sworn to the Lords of the Riverlands - the Tullys
  
• Cat Tully is the eldest daughter of Lord Hoster Tully
  
• Cat married the Stark heir - Lord Eddard Stark
  
• With Robbs death - Bran is the eldest male Stark heir
  
• Bloodraven is considered by many to be a Monster because of his unnatural abilities and that the best place for him is with the other monsters north of the Wall.
  
• Bloodraven has all the qualities associated with - The Stranger (Lord of Death)
  
• Bloodraven has mastered death using 'old knowledge'
  

[falsepod]

edit. messed up

[falsepod]

For which statement?

The statement that he's noted for his size.

[The Lord's Kiss]

After reading this forum I was led to suspect that he was referring to himself when he said Brandon Stark, because Bran is almost never called Brandon that I can recall, but not Bran the Builder. I don't know why someone before me hasn't mentioned this theory but the most popular one is that he is the Night's King. If you remember Old Nan's tale, Bran talks about him in A Storm of Swords, he was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who broke his vows and married an Other and produced some sort of twisted offspring. He ruled for 13 years until the Stark in Winterfell and Joramun the King-Beyond-the-Wall worked together to bring him down. At the end of the story, Old Nan remarks that all records of his name were wiped clean, and that some think he was a Bolton, an Umber, a Flint, but really he was a Stark, and his name was Brandon. Old Nan is never wrong, Coldhands is the Night's King, and he thinks of himself as a monster, Brandon Stark. That he happens to be bringing another Brandon Stark to the last greenseer is certainly something.

[The Great Cornholio!]

By the way: Bloodraven could easily be Brandon Starks Monster...

Breaking it down:

• Bloodraven was the main champion for Targ vs Blackfyre
  
• He was eventually sent to the Black Cells by a Targ - greatful much?
  
• He was later sent to the Wall as an 'honour gaurd' to accompany a friend of his - Aemon Targaryen.
  
• Bloodraven is a Blackwood
  
• The Blackwoods used to be Kings
  
• The Blackwoods are sworn to the Lords of the Riverlands - the Tullys
  
• Cat Tully is the eldest daughter of Lord Hoster Tully
  
• Cat married the Stark heir - Lord Eddard Stark
  
• With Robbs death - Bran is the eldest male Stark heir
  
• Bloodraven is considered by many to be a Monster because of his unnatural abilities and that the best place for him is with the other monsters north of the Wall.
  
• Bloodraven has all the qualities associated with - The Stranger (Lord of Death)
  
• Bloodraven has mastered death using 'old knowledge'
  

You might want to add:

• Has the blood of Firstmen.
  

[The Great Cornholio!]

The statement that he's noted for his size.

This post from another forum might answer your question. I dont have the quote where he talks about cold hands size. I only have ADWD on me.

We simply don't have enough info to be sure of anything for sure at this point...

Coldhands probably isn't Benjen; Leaf says to Bran and co. when they arrive at the CotF's cave that Coldhands is someone who died 'long ago', and to a species that lives hundreds of years, 'long ago' probably means much longer than the time Benjen's been missing. Also, Coldhands isn't a like the other wights; they have the blue light shining through their eyes whereas Coldhands' are dark like a raven's.

As to the wildlings and the CotF remaining north of the Wall 'when it was bullt' is a misconception. Martin has said it took hundreds of years to bulld the Wall, and thousands of years for it to reach its current height. So it's not like the Wall went up to 700ft overnight and people got trapped north of it.

[kissdbyfire]

I think when Coldhands says his 'your monster' bit he is referring to Bloodraven.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

After reading this forum I was led to suspect that he was referring to himself when he said Brandon Stark, because Bran is almost never called Brandon that I can recall, but not Bran the Builder.

It's an interesting thought. But even though it reads the same, the two different interpretations of "Your monster, Brandon Stark", i.e. either Brandon Stark as the addressee of the comment or Brandon Stark as an elaboration on the phrase "your monster" sound vastly different. So if Coldhands had outed himself as a historic Brandon Stark in that situation, Bran would have noticed. And you'd think we'd have noticed if he knew. That's not an airtight argument (POV characters have been able to keep things from us in the past), but I do think it makes the interpretation " 'Brandon Stark' means Coldhands" less likely.

Also, the reason why Bran the Builder is often called Brandon Stark and Bran is mostly called Bran is a matter of formality. You just don't use their nicknames that often when talking about the dead, especially the revered ancestors, while you do use the nickname of a boy especially often. If however as in this situation the address is especially formal as here (including the name of his house), then it makes sense that the actual, formal version of the first name is used as well.

[The Great Cornholio!]

It's an interesting thought. But even though it reads the same, the two different interpretations of "Your monster, Brandon Stark", i.e. either Brandon Stark as the addressee of the comment or Brandon Stark as an elaboration on the phrase "your monster" sound vastly different. So if Coldhands had outed himself as a historic Brandon Stark in that situation, Bran would have noticed. And you'd think we'd have noticed if he knew. That's not an airtight argument (POV characters have been able to keep things from us in the past), but I do think it makes the interpretation " 'Brandon Stark' means Coldhands" less likely.

Also, the reason why Bran the Builder is often called Brandon Stark and Bran is mostly called Bran is a matter of formality. You just don't use their nicknames that often when talking about the dead, especially the revered ancestors, while you do use the nickname of a boy especially often. If however as in this situation the address is especially formal as here (including the name of his house), then it makes sense that the actual, formal version of the first name is used as well.

If the intent is for that sentence to state CH is Brandon Stark, I think GRRM would have written it a little clearer. Otherwise this might make a great question for Martin at the next book signing someone goes to. IF the sentence was meant to be read that CH is Brandon Stark, then he wont have a problem clarifying it.

[chrisdaw]

What if Bran is Bran the Builder resurrected?

And Bran the Builder's spirit somehow instructed Bloodraven in finding his resurrection when time was come, turning Bloodraven into what he is now.

That would make Bloodraven Bran the Builder's monster.

Notice how CH says "Your monster, Brandon Stark".

Whilst I disagree with the idea that the monster reference is for BR for reasons outlined in this thread and in others, the significance of "Brandon Stark" is apparent. It's used also in Bran's final ADWD chapter, Brandon Stark could taste the blood. It may refer to resurrection or merely be symbolising that Bran posesses the same ominous power of the famed Brandon Stark.

[alienarea]

Whilst I disagree with the idea that the monster reference is for BR for reasons outlined in this thread and in others, the significance of "Brandon Stark" is apparent. It's used also in Bran's final ADWD chapter, Brandon Stark could taste the blood. It may refer to resurrection or merely be symbolising that Bran posesses the same ominous power of the famed Brandon Stark.

Don't know if I suggested it here or in one of the heresies before:

Brandon Stark could taste the blood IMHO refers to the prisoner getting his throat sliced in Bran's dream, i.e. I suggest the prisoner is Brandon Stark. That Brandon Stark is now Coldhands - Your monster, Brandon Stark - and hiding his sliced throat.

There are a few Brandon Starks around but because Coldhands describes himself as monster in my train of thought he is Brandon Stark, the Nights King, sacrificed in Winterfell.

And that could tie in to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", because if there isn't, the Nights King comes back? Someone who has been murdered at the wall mayhaps?

[The Great Cornholio!]

Don't know if I suggested it here or in one of the heresies before:

Brandon Stark could taste the blood IMHO refers to the prisoner getting his throat sliced in Bran's dream, i.e. I suggest the prisoner is Brandon Stark. That Brandon Stark is now Coldhands - Your monster, Brandon Stark - and hiding his sliced throat.

There are a few Brandon Starks around but because Coldhands describes himself as monster in my train of thought he is Brandon Stark, the Nights King, sacrificed in Winterfell.

And that could tie in to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", because if there isn't, the Nights King comes back? Someone who has been murdered at the wall mayhaps?

I get the impression that that scene was before Nights King. Anyway the Knights King was a wight at that point, Bran would have noted that.

[Melifeather]

Don't know if I suggested it here or in one of the heresies before:

Brandon Stark could taste the blood IMHO refers to the prisoner getting his throat sliced in Bran's dream, i.e. I suggest the prisoner is Brandon Stark. That Brandon Stark is now Coldhands - Your monster, Brandon Stark - and hiding his sliced throat.

There are a few Brandon Starks around but because Coldhands describes himself as monster in my train of thought he is Brandon Stark, the Nights King, sacrificed in Winterfell.

And that could tie in to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", because if there isn't, the Nights King comes back? Someone who has been murdered at the wall mayhaps?

I quite agree that Coldhands is Brandon Stark and that it was his neck being cut, but I don't believe Brandon Stark was the Night's King. I think his son, which would have been presented to the Children as a ward at the time of the Pact, would be the first Night's King.

[armidil0]

Why is he brans monster, and not BR's? If I'm stupid just point me in the right direction. I'll find it eventually.

[FittleLinger]

Don't know if I suggested it here or in one of the heresies before:

Brandon Stark could taste the blood IMHO refers to the prisoner getting his throat sliced in Bran's dream, i.e. I suggest the prisoner is Brandon Stark. That Brandon Stark is now Coldhands - Your monster, Brandon Stark - and hiding his sliced throat.

There are a few Brandon Starks around but because Coldhands describes himself as monster in my train of thought he is Brandon Stark, the Nights King, sacrificed in Winterfell.

And that could tie in to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell", because if there isn't, the Nights King comes back? Someone who has been murdered at the wall mayhaps?

This is interesting and clever, but in Bran's visions do we have another one when Bran is feeling what the people in front of the heart tree are feeling (e.g. blood in the victim's mouth)

[Melifeather]

When Coldhands says he's Bran's monster, he is offering himself in service to Bran.