Your Monster, Brandon Stark

[luizfar]

What if Bran is Bran the Builder resurrected?

And Bran the Builder's spirit somehow instructed Bloodraven in finding his resurrection when time was come, turning Bloodraven into what he is now.

That would make Bloodraven Bran the Builder's monster.

Notice how CH says "Your monster, Brandon Stark".

[AnOther]

Agree, the impression I have is that Others are another lifeform, one that abhors the warmblooded forms.

I wonder if we'll get more insight into the others motives and drives. It would be interesting to also find out how their society is organised, if they live in cities etc. They're a bit weird in that they're the only thing we can take as absolute evil in the story- but I wonder if we'll still think that at the end of the books? Maybe they're just conjured up by sorcerer.

[lezboyd]

What if Bran is Bran the Builder resurrected?

And Bran the Builder's spirit somehow instructed Bloodraven in finding his resurrection when time was come, turning Bloodraven into what he is now.

That would make Bloodraven Bran the Builder's monster.

Notice how CH says "Your monster, Brandon Stark".

:bs: :bs:

[Cydal]

:bs: :bs:

:agree: :agree: :laugh:

[CrypticWeirwood]

I think Bran appears to be more powerful than Bloodraven

Don’t be too sure of that. Bloodraven is also a sorceror, and we have no evidence that Bran leans in that direction. Bran doesn’t know how to put on a glamour to make himself appear someone completely different from who he really is the way Bloodraven did when he was pretending to be Ser Maynard Plum (which is exactly like Mance impersonating the Lord of Bones).

[Arryk]

If we want to get all wacky about it, perhaps Bran is what lead Bloodraven to the cave where he is now just as Bloodraven is leading Bran. Since as Greenseers past, present and future are the same maybe that's what "Your monster, Brandon Stark" means, Brandon just hasn't whispered to him yet.

[Glyn Tarvoke]

My guess is that Coldhands is what remains of Benjen Stark. Killed by the wights then re-animated by the greenseers before the Others can get to him. My reading was the Coldhands has decided that he will be Brandon Stark's servant--which would make it seem more likely IMO he is Benjen Stark. Unlike the other weights CH seems to be a good guy, as much as he can be for a dead guy. (I like the way Jon Snow always wonders what happened to his Uncle. Seems realistic. And how GRRM gives hints but never really answers the question)

[Blizzard]

My guess is that Coldhands is what remains of Benjen Stark. Killed by the wights then re-animated by the greenseers before the Others can get to him. My reading was the Coldhands has decided that he will be Brandon Stark's servant--which would make it seem more likely IMO he is Benjen Stark. Unlike the other weights CH seems to be a good guy, as much as he can be for a dead guy. (I like the way Jon Snow always wonders what happened to his Uncle. Seems realistic. And how GRRM gives hints but never really answers the question)

This could also be how CH can talk to Bran and his group. But I think CH is also a warg as he can call his ravens to him, unless BR has warged an Other aka CH and can talk through him as there were both human.

[Black Crow]

Bran: "Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?"

Coldhands: "A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last green-seer."

Bran: "A monster,"

Coldhands: "Your monster, Brandon Stark."

What do you make of this exchange?

As soon as I read it I recalled an American secretary of state (I forget which) who famously agreed a certain dictator was a bastard; "but he's our bastard".

In other words Bloodraven is a monster (mad, bad and dangerous to know) but he's on Bran's side.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Ths cld also B hw COLDHANDS cn tlk 2 Brn & hz grp. Bt I thnk COLDHANDS z also a wrg az he cn cl hz rvnz 2 hm, unls BLOODRAVEN hz wrjd an Othr aka COLDHANDS & cn tlk thrw hm az thr wr bth hmn.

(This practice of ubiquitous abbreviations just makes text harder to read and to understand. It slows down the reader. It takes negligible effort to finish typing out abbreviations in full compared with the overall words provided. The writer should always optimize for the reader, not for his

own

typing comfort. It’s a write

‐

once, read‐many scenario, which means that the needs of the many outweigh the selfishness of the one.)

---

I am aware of no textual evidence even vaguely suggesting that Coldhands is a skinchanger of any sort whatsoever, let alone a warg. The individual known for his ravens is Lord Brynden himself, he of the proverbial thousand eyes and one.

Though a legitimized Targaryen by birth, Bloodraven’s mother’s family were House Blackwood of Raventree Hall. Their coat of arms is sanguine, inescutcheon sable a weirdwood tree argent, surrounded by ravens sable.They are known for their weirwood tree wherein thousands of ravens roost by night.

In chapter 46 of Storm, where the wight who was once Small Paul attacks Sam and Gilly, along with a gang of other wights, it is again (or rather, once before) the ravens who serve as a deus avis ex machina to save their lives. The raven perched on Sam’s shoulder then tells them to “Go” south toward the Wall, where they soon meet up with Coldhands.

I can see where you might from think that incident and the later one with Bran that Coldhands is a skinchanging wizard controlling a great unkindness of ravens. However, given that Bloodraven is the greenseer here, his notable family background connect to ravens, and his own legends, I find it far more likely that both the unkindness and Coldhands himself are separate agents of the wizard in the tree.

(

PS

:

Notice how I abbreviate things, too. I wrote

Storm

instead of typing out the title in full as

A Storm of Swords

. Writing

Storm

is infinitely preferable to the annoying

ASOS

, because as a real word it doesn’t slow down the reader, whereas initialisms virtually always do so. Sure, it “costs” on extra keystroke to write

Storm

instead of

ASOS

, but that is risibly infinitesesimal.

)

[SerArthurHeath]

I just find it unfortunate that you need to have read the Dunk and Egg novels to have a true understanding of such an important figure in this series.

It's almost like Martin is trying to promote these other works through subtle references that means nothing to the rest of us, but leaves us frustrated and wanting to know more. Like the stupid tall knight in Bran's Winterfell hearttree vision. This is supposedly some guy called Duncan the Tall, but he has no bearing on the story so why should I care about him in the slightest?

Only Aemon refers to him, and Old Nan, and now we have the Bloodraven connection as well.

Stop shoving some insignificant peripheral story down my throat already, for Pete's sake.

The Three Eyed Crow should have been some northman hermit living in the depths of the Wolfswood, not some prancing southron jackanape with a Targaryen connection.

I'm pretty sure that the term you are looking for for "shoving" extended bits of his universe "down your throat" is called world building. The plot isn't the be all and end all for all readers, you know? Some of us like this stuff, and the fact that if you read around the area you can learn more but you REALLY don't have to in order to understand what is happening in the present book!

[The Great Cornholio!]

What if Bran is Bran the Builder resurrected?

And Bran the Builder's spirit somehow instructed Bloodraven in finding his resurrection when time was come, turning Bloodraven into what he is now.

That would make Bloodraven Bran the Builder's monster.

Notice how CH says "Your monster, Brandon Stark".

I took it to mean a former Bran as well (possibly Brandon the Builder). Could cold hands have been created when the wall was created as a sort of undead guardian on the other side of the wall?

[SerArthurHeath]

I took it to mean a former Bran as well (possibly Brandon the Builder). Could cold hands have been created when the wall was created as a sort of undead guardian on the other side of the wall?

Seeing that people earlier in the thread have seen that Your Monster refers to ColdHands not the 3EC, is the implication of what he says not actually that ColdHands is Bran's monster, and IS Bramdon Stark himself reanimated?

[Boromir-Bloodstorm]

That line (Your Monster, Brandon Stark) gave me chills when I first read it for some reason.

Just don't forget to check under the bed before you sleep each night and you should be fine...

[Jehane]

Does anyone else think this is just all weird crazy crap? I mean c'mon, there are magical people out in the haunted frozen forest who have lived there for who knows how many gazillion years. Then there is this ancient magic dude who can see everything, anytime, anywhere. He can warg into pretty much anything.

Anyone getting a little weary of this buildup of crazy magic?

No way! Bran's POVs were among the chapters I liked best in ADWD - I LOVE weird magic *g* And I think that this opens a whole world of options for Bran - for instance, visiting the weirwood and Winterfell and remembering Theon of his name (I firmly believe it was Bran Theon heard whispering his name). Or saving someone. This weird magic gives Bran a lot of power; also, he seems to be a natural talent as far as warging is concerned. I don't see him reunited with his remaining kin, though. I think he'll have to stay beneath the hill if he wants to become a true greenseer and use the power associated with it.

Coldhands: I cannot help the impression that this is Benjen Stark resurrected - I thought so from the start but I have no way of proving it :)

[iamthedave]

I'm pretty sure that the term you are looking for for "shoving" extended bits of his universe "down your throat" is called world building. The plot isn't the be all and end all for all readers, you know? Some of us like this stuff, and the fact that if you read around the area you can learn more but you REALLY don't have to in order to understand what is happening in the present book!

There's worldbuilding and worldbuilding. The stuff being referred to here isn't worldbuilding, it's obvious self-promotion designed to get people to read other books peripherally related to the book they're reading right now.

I've seen fantasy writers crucified for doing exactly this sort of thing, but martin gets away with it because he's Martin.

[Miriel]

There's worldbuilding and worldbuilding. The stuff being referred to here isn't worldbuilding, it's obvious self-promotion designed to get people to read other books peripherally related to the book they're reading right now.

I've seen fantasy writers crucified for doing exactly this sort of thing, but martin gets away with it because he's Martin.

I'm fairly certain he "gets away with it" because he has a large rabid fan base who are very eager to read more of this world he has built.

This board is a fine example of the army of Martin fans who fervently wish he would write more, and in fact spend lots of their free time on here thinking/talking/speculating about what he has already written, in order to pass the time until he writes some more of it.

That is hardly obvious self promotion. He needs to fend us off, more like!

[Net-Viper X]

I took his use of the name Brandon as a way to show how ancient Coldhands is. People from the olden days didn't seem to abbreviate as much, where a guy now might be called Bill, a few hundred years ago everyone would have called him William. In addition it also seems to lend an air of "properness" (is that a word?)and formality to call him by his full name rather than an abbreviated name, as if Coldhands was not one of the smallfolk, but rather a man of high birth.

He was referring to himself when he said "Your Monster". Bloodraven is on the way out and when hes gone all his power and servants will be passed on to Brann, including Coldhands, so therefore Coldhands is Branns monster. It wouldn't make sense to call Bloodraven the monster since he doesn't and never will belong to Brann, if anything, at the moment Brann belongs to Bloodraven.

[falsepod]

He did have blue eyes.

Since I believe that the wights are the reanimated dead being warged by the others, go back to the attack on the fist when Sam became the Slayer. When that other was killed his control over his wight was lost, that allowed 3EC to take over control or for him to have come back Cat style wonders around then the 3EC finds and helps him come to grip with his new reality and sends him on the quest to get Bran.

If the 3EC is warging Coldhands he is speaking third person and calling himself his monster but anyways its 3EC thats the monster either way.

Sorry if this is a necro and I know this is my first post on this forum (I'll go and introduce myself in the introductions section after this) but I actually signed up because I needed to reply to this. Coldhands has black eyes, not blue, as per this excerpt:

The ranger killed a pig.

Coldhands stood beside the door, a raven on his arm, both staring at the fire. Reflections from the flames glittered off four black eyes.

He does not eat,

Bran remembered,

and he fears the flames.

So from this you can see that Coldhands is not in fact a wight like those that have attacked the fist, sam and gilly, varamyr etc. He's definitely something else. Some have postulated in this thread that he's being warged by bloodraven. I don't think this is the case, I think he's acting independently but is being tailed and looked after by Bloodraven through the murder of ravens. Interestingly I think that his eyes are entirely black, i.e the whites have turned black, similar to what happens to Corvin in Underworld when he assimilates both lycan and vampire DNA. I think this because his eyes are being described as black and the same as the ravens' on his arm. He's definitely dead, he has black eyes, has maintained his consciousness and knows who Bran is. Where I to take a stab at who he was before dying, I'd say Benjen Stark. He keeps his face covered but can't feel the cold, either his face is missing underneath from whatever killed him or he needs to hide his identity. My guess as to his reanimation would be it was bought about by the Children of the Forest.

Sorry if this isn't anything too new, but I needed to clarify that his eyes are in fact black, not blue.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Sorry if this isn't anything too new, but I needed to clarify that his eyes are in fact black, not blue.

Wow, that's quite a catch there - at least I had missed that he differs from a wight in such an important physical way. I would say that's quite a worthy first post. Welcome to the forum and let many more follow! :cheers: