Black Crow Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If Bloodraven does leave his tree, as I believe he will once Bran's wired up, it will be to assist Bloodraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNinja Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 If Bloodraven does leave his tree, as I believe he will once Bran's wired up, it will be to assist BloodravenAssist who? You mean Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I’m really starting to wonder if this whole Others business is a bit of a MacGuffin, not improbably down to Bloodraven. I’ve already discussed the evidence pointing to the Others and the Children being one and the same and to the White Walkers/White Shadows being their glamoured servants, just as Mel and Moqorro are the glamoured servants of the Red lot. The latter are busy trying to sort out Azor Ahai in time for a final confrontation with the Others. Mel’s looking after Stannis; Moqorro’s going for Dany and for all we know there could be more of them out looking for other candidates; presumably because they saw the red star coming and decided it was time for AA to saddle up and finish off the Others, rather than because they knew an invasion was coming. OK somebody’s been stirring the pot north of the Wall but so far we’ve seen precious little sign of an invasion force assembling or been given any credible reason why anybody would want to invade in the first place. Looking at this objectively; a long time ago the forces of Fire and Light won out against the forces of Darkness and Ice, which is why the seasons are out of balance. After their beating, the battered remnants of the said forces of Darkness and Ice (ie: the Children) are currently in a bad way and in no condition to invade anybody; they may also be in no condition to fight off the final push by the Red lot without help if Dany or anybody else does turn out to be AA. Meanwhile back at the ranch we’ve got an everyday story of the Game of Thrones being played out between the Targarayens and various rivals and more or less interested parties aimed at securing the Iron Throne of Westeros. Its a convoluted, bloody story of treachery, brave endeavour, love, hate and what have you. Of itself it has everything and like the preceding Dunk and Egg stories could be satisfactorily played out to a more or less satisfactory conclusion without any intervention from the Others. So why are they in the book at all – they certainly don’t appear to be necessary from a plot point of view, unless... Enter Bloodraven. He’s been in the story all the way through from early in AGoT, and before that in the Dunk and Egg stories. He’s a major player, but stuck in a tree. Is Bran the price of his freedom - and is he helping the Others/Children against the Red lot in return for the Iron Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarianneSnow Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I However, I think he's a cool character and hope he gets to stick around. It would be even more interesting if Bran could replace him in the tree and Bloodraven could revujanate himself to a younger version and take his sorcery, wierwood bow and valyrian steel sword "Dark Sister" to go battle Others (since cripple Bran isn't going anywhere anyway). In addition, he could be a player in defeating Varys and Prince Aegon, or he could want to assist Varys and Prince Aegon. Although, by the end of the book I see Bloodraven assisting Jon Snow and Dany in defeating Prince Aegon. I think this is interesting...Bloodraven needs Bran to replace him but not for what we think. Bloodraven needs to leave the network to help defend the realm against the Others...interesting... It is amazing how these threads can change your mind about how you were so certain about and then you read a thread and it all goes to hell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nah, as I've just said, Bloodraven isn't wanting to escape the tree so that he can "help defend the Realm against the Others"; its the realm that needs defending against Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nah, as I've just said, Bloodraven isn't wanting to escape the tree so that he can "help defend the Realm against the Others"; its the realm that needs defending against Bloodraven. Honestly, I don't see how he's going to escape anything. The guy's a plant. Unless he wargs into Hodor or something. And he's obviously fighting against the Others as shown by him helping Coldhands and the wights trying to stop Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Honestly, I don't see how he's going to escape anything. The guy's a plant. Unless he wargs into Hodor or something. And he's obviously fighting against the Others as shown by him helping Coldhands and the wights trying to stop Bran. All depends how you read it. There's no doubt that Bran has been brought up there to take his place in the tree. On a superficial reading, yes Coldhands had to fight off the wights to get him safely into the cave. On a less superficial level Coldhands was in no danger himself and the whole episode sounds more like the party being herded to the cave with the wights sitting outside to ensure there was no escape. Again on a superficial level, Bran needs to take over because Bloodraven is dying. On a less superficial level can we really believe that a deeply embedded character (and powerful and unscruplulous sorceror) like Bloodraven is about to quietly roll over and die just like that - hence the expectation that Bran is going to be plugged into the tree as a replacement so that Bloodraven can physically escape and take his rightful place in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrosBeforeSnows Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Just a crackpot theory but what if Shiera Seastar is Melisandre. I'm basing this solely on that Shiera is known to be a sorceress and that we know Melisandre has been around for a long time. Mel probably is wearing a glamour (i.e. ruby around her neck), so she could be anyone really, but I highly doubt she's anyone from Westeros, given that we've read a chapter from her POV. She genuinely does seem to be from the East. Maybe Shiera Seastar is the Waif? I could throw out a few theories connecting the Faceless Men to the rise of the Targaryens, but I'll just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrosBeforeSnows Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Maekar may have sent Bloodraven to the black cells, but Aegon V (i.e. Egg), who is shown to be a pretty good guy in the Dunk & Egg stories (even though he is a child, but good natured nonetheless) didn't pardon him upon coming to power. Perhaps sending to the Wall was a mercy, if Maekar had condemned him, but Egg could've pardoned him for whatever crimes he had committed, if he really thought he was a good guy. Granted, public opinion was definitely against BR, and Egg wouldn't have made many friends reversing his father's decrees in regards to the man, but Egg, at least as a child, always had a pretty strong sense of justice. If he felt Bloodraven was being wronged, he would've intervened, just as he did for Dunk. But then again, it seemed as if Maekar had done a pretty good job of convincing Egg that bastards are treacherous by nature, so maybe he made the decision to get rid of BR himself. It's hard to say, given the massive gap in the history. Egg's kind of like the reverse of Jesus; we know quite a bit about his childhood, but hardly anything of his adult life. So, until we find out more, we won't really know exactly why BR went to the Wall, or who was behind it. Nor will we know what happened to him once he got there, since Aemon never mentioned him (which is odd). Perhaps Samwell will dig up some old book about his history as LC of the NW? Unless we get more Dunk & Egg (which, if I'm not mistaken, I believe we will be), someone in the current timeline will have to figure out more about him. I suppose the easiest solution would be for Bloodraven himself to tell his life's story to Bran, but he only seems to speak in riddles, so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the average Other Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Before I read this thread I kinda took it as granted that Blooraven is a good guy and will help fight the oncoming winter and the Others, but now... You've planted quite a lot of suspicions in my mind. He is a known kinslayer, after all, and Maekar and Egg, neither of whom was insane from what we've seen and heard, both seemed to think he was guilty of some crime that merited first imprisonment and then a life in the Night's Watch. Once in the Watch, he rose all the way to the highest position - and then turned his cloak and abandoned the Watch to pursue his own agenda, whatever that is. Maester Aemon, who came to the Wall at the same time as him, never talks about his great uncle. We know he can send dreams to people. Did he have something to do with Rhaegar and the actions he took that led to war? How about Aerys's paranoia and madness? Those are just guesses of course but it's not impossible that much of the troubles that befell House Targaryen were actually orchestrated by one bastard with special abilities and a grudge. The thought that Bran is evil!Bloodraven's way to freedom is deliciously creepy, imo. It would be a cool subversion. So often in stories the prince that goes seeking for a rumored wise hermit really does find a wise good hermit who imparts the knowledge that's the key to saving everybody on the prince he's waited his whole life to teach before croaking (see: Yoda). It would be painful to read of Bran finding the teacher he was looking for only to see him walk into a trap and accidentally release the big bad. It wouldn't even have to mean that Bran's storyline ends in a downer: he could still find a way to learn greenseer-magicks that Bloodraven never knew were possible (it's already happening, actually) and stop him. Yeah, you can see how this captured my imagination. :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrionthebest Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nah, as I've just said, Bloodraven isn't wanting to escape the tree so that he can "help defend the Realm against the Others"; its the realm that needs defending against Bloodraven.Dude, It's clear you know nothing about Bloodraven and have not even read the novellas . Just stop trying to make your theories as facts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNinja Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think Melisandre and the red priests may sense Bloodraven's power. And now that he has Bran's ear he can use him for whatever purpose he wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well he certainly put the wind up Melisandre when he broke into her fire vision thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy89 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well he certainly put the wind up Melisandre when he broke into her fire vision thing.Yeah, that was quite funny :PSuddenly she felt a complete novice again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Lion Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 maybe the song of ice and fire means its the old gods (ice) versus R'Hllor. Bran (Warging something) and jon will lead an army composed of northermen and others against Dany and her dragons, and they will have their final battle on the trident, where dany will die, but R'Hllor will win the battle, pushing the great other (bloodraven) to the north, where they will remain, with jon as the king of winter, and bran as his god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins7778 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Not to get off topic but I just finished a reread of an Arya chapter in Storm where Sandoe snatches her from the BwB and came upon something interesting. When Thoros looks into his flame and sees that Riverun is under seige by Lannisters he also mentions that the woodswitch can also see things that are going to happen through her weirwood trees."She has her own way of knowing things, that one. The weirwoods whisper in her ear when she sleeps."And a few chapters earlier Arya hears her tell Lem and Tom O Sevens "I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from the terror."That's obviously Cat following the red wedding and her subsequent "rebirth" into Uncat.So how does she see the future from the weirwoods? I first thought she had greendreams but Jojen never says his dreams come from the Weirwoods. Can she somehow see the future through the weirwood network and will Bran get this power as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank2166 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think Bloodraven intentionally spread half the nasty rumors about himself. That might even be in the D&E tales.I wonder what ever happened to his sister, Shiera Seastar, who was also reported to be sorceress, one who practiced the same sort of magic as her mother, who was herself said to have practiced life extension techniques. Perhaps Shiera taught them to her lover Bloodraven. If so, where is Shiera? Could she be Quaithe?Or, did they have any children? I think Varys is too young, but I’m not sure.And how is it that Aemon and Bloodraven went to the Wall together, where Bloodraven eventually rose to the rank of Lord Commander, and yet Aemon says nothing about this. How was Bloodraven lost to him? How could the Watch have completely lost track of their mission to fight the Others, given Bloodraven, who obviously knew the truth.These things don’t quite add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank2166 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think I missed something. It's pretty obvious from the description that the three eyed crow is Bloodraven from the Dunk and Egg stories. But why do the people on this Blog keep saying that Bloodraven was a LC of the Night Watch? That isn't mentioned in the D&E stories, nor is it mentioned in any of the ASOIAF novels. Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins7778 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It was in a Sam chapter in feast where Aemon describes how he came to the wall accompanied by Brynde Rivers aka Bloodraven."One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen Lord Commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank2166 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It was in a Sam chapter in feast where Aemon describes how he came to the wall accompanied by Brynde Rivers aka Bloodraven."One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen Lord Commander. Wow, I totally missed that. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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