To pose a Bloodraven question

[SerArthurHeath]

Hmm, good question. It depends on whether King Aegon V "The Unlikely" (Egg from the Dunk and Egg stories) would have restored it to him upon freeing him from the Black Cells to go to the Wall with Aemon. I think there's a decent chance that Aegon could have done this because he didn't have any animosity toward Bloodraven I don't think. If Dark Sister made it to the Wall with Bloodraven then, if he simply went out ranging one day and disappeared, the sword would most likely have disappeared with him in my opinion. However, there are a lot of "ifs" there. We just don't know the circumstances of what happened to Bloodraven or what he may have done while at the Wall.

Here's another question: does the name of the sword "Dark Sister" have anything to do with Bloodraven's sister and lover Shiera Seastar?

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that is named for one of Aegon 1's sisters

[Été]

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that is named for one of Aegon 1's sisters

Yeah, and it bore that name when it was wielded by Aemon the Dragonknight, Bloodraven's uncle. I'd like to know what happened to it, too - and in fact the whole story of Bloodraven at the Wall: his despatch, his tenure as LC and his departure.

[Davos' Middle Finger]

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that is named for one of Aegon 1's sisters

It wasn't named for one of Aegon I's sisters, but one of them, Visenya, did wield it. It was named Dark Sister because it is a slender, lighter blade, designed for a woman or a man of a smaller build, like Bloodraven, to use.

[SerArthurHeath]

It wasn't named for one of Aegon I's sisters, but one of them, Visenya, did wield it. It was named Dark Sister because it is a slender, lighter blade, designed for a woman or a man of a smaller build, like Bloodraven, to use.

Thanks

[Daeron Targaryen]

I don't think anyone that knew Bloodraven in his more human days would recognize him now.

I disagree, we recognized him quite easily as soon as we saw him. And old age don't erase striking features like white skin and a huge red blirthmark; also he still has only one red eye. All features that Shiera should be familiar with.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I disagree, we recognized him quite easily as soon as we saw him. And old age don't erase striking features like white skin and a huge red blirthmark; also he still has only one red eye. All features that Shiera should be familiar with.

I think you’re right, which is why I never thought of Mel as a Shiera possibility. It’s Quaithe I’m looking at. It seems like Bloodraven is the magical um overseer? for the Starks, and Quaithe for the Targaryens. I can’t see what’s in it for Quaithe, so that’s why I was wondering whether she might be Shiera. Given their scrying powers, I shouldn’t think Bloodraven and Shiera wouldn’t be able to know about and even communicate with each other if both were around.

Then again, Quaithe may just be a figment of Dany’s deterioration in madness by now, and only the physical encounter was real.

I keep looking for a description of Quaithe’s eyes, which would seal the deal, but all I get it that they’re wet.

[Prince of the North]

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) that is named for one of Aegon 1's sisters

It wasn't named for one of Aegon I's sisters, but one of them, Visenya, did wield it. It was named Dark Sister because it is a slender, lighter blade, designed for a woman or a man of a smaller build, like Bloodraven, to use.

Ah, thanks. So it was named before it ever came to Brynden Rivers. Like everyone else, I'd still love to know what happened to it?

[History of Westeros]

Hmm, good question. It depends on whether King Aegon V "The Unlikely" (Egg from the Dunk and Egg stories) would have restored it to him upon freeing him from the Black Cells to go to the Wall with Aemon. I think there's a decent chance that Aegon could have done this because he didn't have any animosity toward Bloodraven I don't think. If Dark Sister made it to the Wall with Bloodraven then, if he simply went out ranging one day and disappeared, the sword would most likely have disappeared with him in my opinion. However, there are a lot of "ifs" there. We just don't know the circumstances of what happened to Bloodraven or what he may have done while at the Wall.

Here's another question: does the name of the sword "Dark Sister" have anything to do with Bloodraven's sister and lover Shiera Seastar?

Dark Sister dates back to before Aegon the Conqueror's sister-wives, one of whom wielded it. the Dragonknight also wielded it.

[Kadence]

If so, where is Shiera? Could she be Quaithe?

Well now...I hadn't heard this before, but it actually seems very possible. interesting. Is this theory discussed in any other thread?

I do have a suspicion that Shiera will be heard from somehow, and perhaps she is sitll alive. If so Quaithe is the only candidate I can think of. I could definitely see Martin doing Bloodraven and Quaithe as mirror puppet-masters and string-pullers, one for Jon and Bran and one for Dany. (who might also be the three heads)

And how is it that Aemon and Bloodraven went to the Wall together, where Bloodraven eventually rose to the rank of Lord Commander, and yet Aemon says nothing about this.

He actually did mention it, I believe to Sam.

ETA:

Given their scrying powers, I shouldn’t think Bloodraven and Shiera wouldn’t be able to know about and even communicate with each other if both were around

This is a very interesting possibility too.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Well now...I hadn't heard this before, but it actually seems very possible. interesting. Is this theory discussed in any other thread?

Well, I’ve brought it up before. But it hasn’t seen a lot of discussion.

[Kadence]

Well, I’ve brought it up before. But it hasn’t seen a lot of discussion.

Yes it definitely merits discussion.

There is no textual support I can think of to support Shiera=Quaithe - but then there wasn't all that much textual support for Bloodraven=3EC on first glance and I became a believer in that theory rather quickly. Because all this Blackfyre Rebellion stuff is clearly of great import to Martin and he's looking to tie everything together. I suspect there's a reason to why we haven't learned the fate of Shiera. Could well be that she's still alive. And the mirroring of the Bloodraven with Bran and Jon and Quaithe with Dany is powerful stuff.

I'd like to hear Ran's thoughts on this issue. Of course I know he says Asahra=Quaithe in jest :) I'm interested in what the book he's working on has in terms of new Shiera info. If there is even a mention of the word 'Asshai', I will be a much stronger believer in this theory...

[Dio Forel]

Yes indeed, I've been shooting longbow for about 20 years and rifle before that. Two eyes are good for judging short distances but at longer ranges you rely on physical markers such as the comparative size of your target or objects in close proximity to it as well as other indicators, which asre down tyo experience rather than two eyes.

When actually shooting the received wisdom is to focus on the foresight (or the arrowhead) with the target appearing as a blur beyond it - try this with an extended finger or thumb - and to do this its best to use just one eye.

Ahhh... we meet again..... Bloodraven!

[CrypticWeirwood]

Shiera has unmatched eyes like Tyrion. I keep trying to get a look at Quaithe’s eyes, because it would be a tell.

[Miriel]

The reason I'd like to know this is because we know Prince Rhaegar and Maester Aemon were in communication and I'd like to know if Bloodraven could have also been in on these communications and possibly influencing Rhaegar?

I've missed this. How do we know this? Thanks!

[Sevumar]

I really, really hope that Quaithe is not Shiera Seastar. There's some benefit to having characters that remain mysterious. Not every character without a clear identity needs to be an 80-100 year old person hiding, or a long-lost prince. We've seen a lot of people emerge from hidden identities in the series, with possibilities for a couple more and I think that while this is an interesting plot device, it's been about stretched to its limit.

What I find more intriguing is that perhaps Quaithe and Morna White Mask are opposite and parallel to each other in some meaningful way. True, we just met Morna, but she's an intriguing character and she seems to be someone Jon trusts enough to give one of the abandoned castles along the Wall.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I really, really hope that Quaithe is not Shiera Seastar. There's some benefit to having characters that remain mysterious. Not every character without a clear identity needs to be an 80-100 year old person hiding, or a long-lost prince. We've seen a lot of people emerge from hidden identities in the series, with possibilities for a couple more and I think that while this is an interesting plot device, it's been about stretched to its limit.

Yeah, it’s about 10 or even more depending on how you count things like the Mance switch with the Lord of Bones. Definitely a very major theme/plot device in these books. Given that, I suspect we’ve not seen the last of it.

[Geddus]

I've missed this. How do we know this? Thanks!

Aemon knew Rhaegar thought he was the PTWP and later thought it was Aegon, so it's easy to assume they were in contact, but who knows.

[Prince of the North]

Well now...I hadn't heard this before, but it actually seems very possible. interesting. Is this theory discussed in any other thread?

I do have a suspicion that Shiera will be heard from somehow, and perhaps she is sitll alive. If so Quaithe is the only candidate I can think of. I could definitely see Martin doing Bloodraven and Quaithe as mirror puppet-masters and string-pullers, one for Jon and Bran and one for Dany. (who might also be the three heads)

I posted about Shiera Seastar possibly being Quaithe about a month ago (post #69) here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53312-adwd-spoilers-the-three-eyed-crow/page__st__60. It is then discussed a little bit but that's about all I've seen about it so far other than a few mentions like above.

[Tormund the Hornblower]

Hmm, good question. It depends on whether King Aegon V "The Unlikely" (Egg from the Dunk and Egg stories) would have restored it to him upon freeing him from the Black Cells to go to the Wall with Aemon. I think there's a decent chance that Aegon could have done this because he didn't have any animosity toward Bloodraven I don't think. If Dark Sister made it to the Wall with Bloodraven then, if he simply went out ranging one day and disappeared, the sword would most likely have disappeared with him in my opinion. However, there are a lot of "ifs" there. We just don't know the circumstances of what happened to Bloodraven or what he may have done while at the Wall.

Here's another question: does the name of the sword "Dark Sister" have anything to do with Bloodraven's sister and lover Shiera Seastar?

No the sword was Aegon the Conqueres sister Visenya's who was a fierce battle women and a dark sister and dark women im sure if she had raised maegor the cruel.

[Tormund the Hornblower]

wow didnt realize there was a whole other page where ten people answered that question