Who do you WANT to win the Iron Throne?

[boojam]

In order to have democracy in Westeros, Westeros needs to have a bourgoise, a Renaissance, and an Englightenment...

to have the Enlightenment (where philosophers such as Thomas Paine and John Locke come into play) you must first have a Renaissance (Luther, Erasmus, Thomas More) and to have a Renaissance you must have capitalism.

Capitalism was able to occur because after the Black Death, 45-65% of the population died (peasants being more severely affected than the aristocracy) which caused a wage increase.

George does have a very odd thing in his alternate universe, it's been noted before, banks!

What the heck, I have never seen banks in a quasi-fantasy world before (I make , like many, make a sharp division between fantasy and science fiction).

(Religion , after a fashion, does play a role in George's universe, tho it's kind of 'now you see it, now you don't' sort of thing.)

In any case there seems to be a pretty large Bourgeoisie in Braavos, the big bank, and even an insurance salesman, gad! when's the last time a fantasy story had an insurance agent in it!?)

Of course George could be having a go at us, he loves doing that.

There do seem to be self-employed proprietors, small employers, entrepreneurs , vaguely described in Westeros.

Are all the 'small folk' yoked to serfdom?

There sure seem to be some shipping merchants, who would count as middle class.

We have seen no lawyers or jurists as best I can tell.

Advancement in the sciences seems almost nil, some maesters try their hand at it, but seems kind of puny work to be, being mediocre physicians , tutors and mumbo jumbo interpreters of old literature.

Don't seem to be an Archimedes or a Galileo or such like about.

Still the way George is going , the Others, the Iron Bank, the FM (what the heck are they up to, or maybe Braavos will come out top dog?), the mysterious Illyrio and Varys conspiracy, ... gad it's gonna take George 10 more novels to straighten all this out, if ever!

Maybe everybody will get run over by a truck?

[Slurms McKenzie]

My preference is for Stannis winning the Iron Throne.........however I have become oddly interested and fascinated by Roose Bolton......although the scenario is probably impossible just imagine him as King.......that'll be one hell of a shock for all those southron ruling families........entertaining idea, the way he might terrorize or flay the Lannisters and the Tyrells......he'll soon put them in their place.....it might be worth it even knowing that he'd get away with killing Robb...maybe.

[lordthade]

Roose would be one ruthless S.O.B. as king of the Iron Throne, it is known.

We WANT him punished for the Red Wedding, but it would be like GRRM to never give us that satisfaction.

It would be a long and winding road from Ward of the North to King of the North, however. I worry that the plot would be ridiculous. We've only got two books left, remember, and he's barely got an army and no navy. There are far too many other players already IN the south with more viable claims. Highgarden, Dorne, the Vale, Golden Company, the Lannisters, and there's still those across the seas.

I like the idea, but I just don't know how it happens in two books. :cool4:

[Whatever]

My preference is for Stannis winning the Iron Throne.........however I have become oddly interested and fascinated by Roose Bolton......although the scenario is probably impossible just imagine him as King.......that'll be one hell of a shock for all those southron ruling families........entertaining idea, the way he might terrorize or flay the Lannisters and the Tyrells......he'll soon put them in their place.....it might be worth it even knowing that he'd get away with killing Robb...maybe.

Roose Bolton is the last person I'd want to see as king. Not because i cared about Robb, just because he's a selfish idiot. Ramsay's crazy.. what is HIS excuse?

[Sofokles]

I dont even care actually, as long as i see Lannisters extinct.

[lordthade]

I want FREYS extinct... Tyrion Lannister seems a decent fellow (if a bit too fond of his debauchery). :devil:

[Princess of the Night]

Why I WANT to see on the Iron throne.. I would definitely love to see all the cool characters work together and rule the kingdom! :D It is hard to only pick one, because everyone has their own unique qualities (some obviously more than the others) and it would be cool to see few characters settling everything down peacefully, and ruling together.

[Nightstar]

What I think would be best for Westeros is Jon as King, with Tyrion as his Hand, Sam as his Maester, and Dany and Margaery Tyrell as Queens.

But I don't think things will work out precisely like that.

[Old Gods Be Good]

Gendry should be King, Arya his Queen. Both come from noble bloodlines and more importantly, both have seen war first hand and know how many lives it ruined, which would make them likely to want to keep the peace if they got power.

Gendry is very in touch with the small folk and Arya is familiar with the Lords and Noblemen and their ways. Being able to relate to all the people in Westeros would make them good rulers as well.

There was a time when I thought this may even be the way the story was heading, but now it seems too far fetched that Gendry could become King cause he's become such an afterthought of late.

[The Mother of The Others]

Queen Arya would be full of fun. Take Cercei's face, then make some changes, then drop the disguise after it's safe to. Queen Arya might also be like a homegrown Daenerys in a way.

If the Starks end up in control of things, they'll probably own more than one castle, so Gendry and Arya could still be lord and lady of Storm's End without having to be the royals if someone else is taking care of that for the family.

[Raksha the Demon]

Arya would become bored with being Queen in about five minutes.

A queen has to do a lot of things that Arya would find difficult. I cannot see Arya having the patience to meet and greet and make small talk with great lords and their wives about the weather, agriculture, fashions, children, music; in fact anything other than war and travel. Arya would have to play the great and gracious lady of the realm; and she would hate it. Sansa would excel at being a queen...Arya would make a great military commander/advisor.

Unless Gendry becomes the head of the Brotherhood, and the Brotherhood does a lot of conquering, I don't see him becoming king. I think he would prefer to finish his apprenticeship and become a smith; I think he'd be great at it. If any Baratheon bastard becomes king, it would probably be the noble-born and acknowledged Edric Storm, possibly married to Shireen if she survives.

Who do I want to win the Iron Throne? No idea. I don't see anyone who I would really trust with that much power. Jon might be a good candidate in about ten years. Tyrion's smart enough, but dwarves are regarded as cursed or monstrous; also Tyrion's exhibiting more of a Lannister vicious streak of late. Aegon is too young and hot-headed; and I don't think he'll necessarily listen to his foster-father if Aegon is crowned king. Daeny has shown no interest in going to Westeros, much less ruling it.

Barristan Selmy would make a good king; but he's old to start out as one, and he wouldn't want to be a king.

For all we know, GRRM is going to end the series with Samwell Tarly sitting his capacious posterior upon the Iron Throne, after some growing up and maester training. :dunno:

[ARYa_Nym]

King Jon Targaryen the Wallbreaker.

Anyways, as to Arya I think Gendry might be a red-herring. If the naming of her wolf has significance like it did with Jon then perhaps she will end up in Dorne with Trystane. I want Edric Dayne so badly for her though. :crying: She would like it there because it's more liberal towards women.

I don't think either Arya or Sansa would be good queen regnants. Neither knows how to rule, lead people, or command loyalty. Nymeria is the queen of her pack of wolves though.

[Raksha the Demon]

King Jon Targaryen the Wallbreaker.

Anyways, as to Arya I think Gendry might be a red-herring. If the naming of her wolf has significance like it did with Jon then perhaps she will end up in Dorne with Trystane. I want Edric Dayne so badly for her though. :crying: She would like it there because it's more liberal towards women.

I don't think either Arya or Sansa would be good queen regnants. Neither knows how to rule, lead people, or command loyalty. Nymeria is the queen of her pack of wolves though.

I don't see either Arya or Sansa as a queen regnant; but Sansa could be an excellent queen consort, with a few more years of growing up. Elizabeth I was not a perfect queen-in-waiting during her teenaged years, if I remember the incident in her bedchamber with her step-father, either...

Arya could do very well in Dorne. I just can't see her ever settling down to marriage and babies, especially if winter is going to last a long time in the North, and the Others attacking humans all over the place; Arya will want to be where the action is, defending whatever is left of her own people. Unless she has become a Faceless Woman...

[Grip]

I would have to say Stannis atm, been a fan of him from the start. That I want him to win the throne doesnt nescessarily mean that I think he would be the best king hovewer. As has been mentioned earlier his connection with Mel and her god is slightly disturbing, hovewer it also makes him more interesting than many of the other "contenders"..

[estrellas]

I think Dany and Jon would both make a good ruler. They have both mistakes in their positions as ruler of their respective people, but their mistakes were out of love and goodness (the road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all.) Dany did not want her dragons eating innocent children, nor did she want to start sacrificing hostages. Jon wanted to protect the wildlings, fill the Wall with new recruits and reduce the number of wights wandering around north of the Wall. Both of them ended up struggling because of this, but you don't learn how to make an omelet without cracking some eggs. I doubt either of them makes these mistakes again, but both would still rule with more compassion towards the common people than anyone else contending for the throne.

Stannis would only make a good ruler with Davos, Jon or a similarly tough and intelligent person as his Hand. Without that, Stannis would be a disaster. He consistently makes bad decisions unless someone else can forcefully steer him away from that course of action. The problem is that no one can guarantee a good Hand will always exist. If Stannis starts off with Davos as Hand, and then Davos dies...then what? Then we're left with Stannis the boneheaded king and his misguided Lady Macbeth, Melisandre.

Aegon is an unknown quantity and, IMO, his days are numbered. Tommen won't survive the series, based on the prophecy given to Cersei by Maggy the Frog.

Also based on the prophecy by Maggy the Frog, I think Sansa might be queen some day (and I think she'd make a good one, based on her taking charge during the siege of King's Landing, while Cersei was going bonkers.) The one who is "younger and more beautiful than you" casts her down and also takes all she holds dear. The only things Cersei holds dear are her children and power. Sansa's already taken one child away from Cersei, although she didn't know she was doing it at the time. Now that that has already happened, who else can it be? Cersei thinks Margaery, but Cersei is consistently wrong about EVERYTHING, so at this point I'm starting to think that whatever Cersei thinks is the opposite of reality.

[Hamilton]

Mance Rayder- King Beyond and Behind the Wall

[Nightstar]

Stannis would only make a good ruler with Davos, Jon or a similarly tough and intelligent person as his Hand. Without that, Stannis would be a disaster. He consistently makes bad decisions unless someone else can forcefully steer him away from that course of action. The problem is that no one can guarantee a good Hand will always exist. If Stannis starts off with Davos as Hand, and then Davos dies...then what? Then we're left with Stannis the boneheaded king and his misguided Lady Macbeth, Melisandre.

Interesting point- Ideally Westeros needs a competent ruler and a competent Hand.

Although it is possible to get by with one or the other, the kingdom won't truly prosper that way!

And if there is neither, disaster awaits.

(In Robert's case, he was a bad king but had Jon Arryn as a Hand, so he did all right.

Then Ned became Hand, and things went downhill fast.)

[Yeade]

First, the previous thread may be of interest to those following this topic. Since I spent most of my time there discussing Jon/Dany, lol, I'll try again to speculate on the future of Westeros here. My ideas are perhaps verging on being dangerously detailed--as in harmful to my continued sanity as the series progresses--but there's no better place for wishful thinking!

The North, Vale, and Riverlands

A more or less independent realm ruled by Rickon as King in the North and of the Trident. Rickon's acceptable not only to the surviving northmen and riverlords of Robb's former kingdom but the integrated wildlings and reformed ironborn of Stannis's quest for the Iron Throne plus Jon's assorted alliance-making hijinks.

I figure the Vale's a sort of semi-autonomous region within the greater northern dominion that Sansa takes as her seat. Though I imagine she resides in Winterfell until Rickon comes of age, overseeing the reconstruction of her childhood home and educating her youngest brother in the subtleties of politics. Whether Sansa's formally acknowledged as Lady of the Eyrie or the unofficial power behind the scenes (Lady Winter FTW!) depends on the fates of Robert Arryn (poor kid's a goner, I fear) and Harry the Heir (a killer marriage?). Either way, I think the Vale's airy fairy tale castle, where the slightest misstep can prove deadly, and its location within easy reach of King's Landing, allowing Sansa to ply her hard-earned diplomatic skills in southern climes on behalf of her family, suit Sansa or, rather, the woman she'll be well.

Supposing Asha, Theon, the Reader, and likely Aeron are successful in ousting Euron, then revamping the culture of the Iron Islands, I'd like Rickon to grant the ironborn the lands once held by the Freys, who've been stripped of nobility and titles. Edmure's still Lord of Riverrun, considerably hardened by his stint as a Lannister prisoner. Let's say he offers the Freys innocent of the Red Wedding sanctuary for Roslin's sake. I hope the Blackfish's alive to dote on his increasingly numerous nephews and nieces, too.

The North's economic future is secured through access to the fertile valleys of the Vale and ironborn control of the waterways across the riverlands. Moat Cailin becomes a prosperous market town as well as fortress on the kingsroad to Winterfell. Increased trade with Essos over the Narrow Sea, in lumber especially, makes the North wealthier than ever before. The Starks remain frugal rulers, however, always keeping in mind their house words. (Winter is coming.)

Jaime or Jorah, whoever lives, for Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Which is no longer the ailing institution bound by calcified traditions it was from AGOT to ADWD but holds true to its purpose of defending the realms of men against the Others. The Wall's magical protections probably need to be re-spelled even if its physical dimensions stay largely intact. I believe this task is Bran's. Maybe before he disappears into the far north to follow in Bloodraven's footsteps, the lone sentry who'll preserve the memory of the war for the dawn generations after everyone else's forgotten. I'm really quite partial to a dreaming Bran in the weirwood matrix being the last epilogue POV character.

The Iron Throne and Dorne

So, who sits the Iron Throne? Stannis I've marked for a doomed reenactment of the Night's King legend with Melisandre in TWOW. Aegriff may win the Iron Throne for a time, but I think his real purpose's to start snowballing the military might of the south in preparation for Dany's arrival and introduce her to the concept of long lost nephews, heirs to her brother Rhaegar hidden away, before she meets Jon. As for Dany herself, I like the image of her finally opening and stepping through the red door of her dreams in death.

That pretty much leaves Jon with the Iron Throne. Which he hates desperately! Perfectly fine by me! Jon's my favorite and must be made to suffer. :laugh:

Arya for his Master of Whisperers (and Assassins!). She has plenty of chances to travel and use the training she picked up from the Faceless Men in her life of dangerous intrigue. Not to mention she can flirt to her heart's content with Ned Dayne and Edric Baratheon at court while seeing Gendry, now a master blacksmith, on the side, lol. Sam for his Grand Maester, of course. Davos as Master of Laws and/or Ships, co-opted from Stannis. Instead of a Master of Coin, the Iron Bank posts a permanent liaison to Westeros upon realizing Jon's one Targaryen the Braavosi can do good business with. Tyrion as Hand of the King (and Lord of Casterly Rock), inherited from Dany, to cover every other angle. That ought to set Tywin spinning in his grave...

One of the positive effects of Dany's adventures in Essos is, as in the North, stronger ties across the Narrow Sea. Meereen and the rest of (ex-)Slaver's Bay, at least Braavos and Pentos among the Free Cities, even distant Asshai may wish to maintain formal alliances with the Iron Throne, if only so Westeros doesn't surprise them with another ice zombie apocalypse.

Dorne continues as a semi-autonomous princedom under the Iron Throne similar to the Vale in the (hypothetical) northern realm. I suppose Jon marries either Arianne or Margaery, whoever lives. Hell, maybe he weds both! It's all strictly politics, you know.

I'm still kind of embarrassingly enamored of Jon, who finds being king yet another miserable duty, ensuring the realm's future prosperity, then abdicating to his eldest child (Dornish customs FTW!) and journeying north one final time so he can receive his lawful punishment for breaking his Night's Watch vows at last. To spare Rickon the curse of kinslaying, Jon asks the current Lord Commander to do the deed. Jorah or Jaime, of all men, would understand Jon's need to redeem his honor. Jaime, most of all, IMO.

Full of holes (tropes! cliches!), I know. The unresolved storyline of Dany's dragons, the Citadel, and magic is a glaring one I'd put effort into solving if I weren't so damned lazy. Hey, it's my dream conclusion to ASOIAF! ^_^

[ARYa_Nym]

I don't see either Arya or Sansa as a queen regnant; but Sansa could be an excellent queen consort, with a few more years of growing up. Elizabeth I was not a perfect queen-in-waiting during her teenaged years, if I remember the incident in her bedchamber with her step-father, either...

Arya could do very well in Dorne. I just can't see her ever settling down to marriage and babies, especially if winter is going to last a long time in the North, and the Others attacking humans all over the place; Arya will want to be where the action is, defending whatever is left of her own people. Unless she has become a Faceless Woman...

Consort to Stannis or Tyrion? Aegon most likely won't be a factor in the end. Elizabeth had a claim in her own right. Rickon and Bran would have to die for either Sansa or Arya to have a claim to the North if it should break off.

Arya will still be a child when the Others attack so that wouldn't even be a possible course of action. Stannis wouldn't need to marry her off quickly if he has Rickon.

GRRM could always show us the future by using weirBran. The last book is called A Dream of Spring so it most likely will be winter throughout the majority of it but Bran can show us what happened to everyone later on.

[LadyMary]

I don't think there will be a cohesive Seven Kingdoms when the apocalypse ends, but the Iron Throne belongs to the Targaryens as it was "crafted" by the fire of Aegon the Conqueror's dragon. But I think its symbolism will be a thing of history by the time the apocalypse is over.

That said, if the Seven Kingdoms is intact, I want to see a parliamentary monarchy, where whatever ruler is subject to the will of the parliament although protected by the same. I like the idea of MaybeAegon/Sansa being King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, but the King's power diminished so that he's more of a servant to his people than is currently the case in Westeros.

I want to see Danaerys retired as Princess of Dragonstone, Mother of Dragons, co-Savior of the Realm (with Jon), etc., but she dreams of returning to the house with the red door. I want Jon to be Lord of Winterfell, Rickon Stark - Lord of the Dreadfort (after the Boltons are obliterated), Bran the last greenseer, basically a god and also the North's member of Parliament, Stannis Lord of Storm's End, Theon or Asha on the Seastone Chair. Of course, Arianne will rule in Dorne with her council comprised of the Sand Snakes. Oh, and Tyrion will be Lord of Casterly Rock and Jaime will be off in Tarth with his gal pal, Brienne.