Could Robb have won?

[Talleyrand]

Simply, if the Freys had been placated with the marriage of Edmure and Roslin, and Bolton without support from Walder had not gone through with his betrayal could Robb forced the Ironmen out of the North and then found some form of success in the south?

[The Sleeper]

At that point the most he could have accomplished would be to regain the North, which he would have done in year or so. That means he would have trouble coming back to the Riverlands with a respectable host for quite some time.

Robb did not lose because of anything he did. His strategy was sound and he had put Tywin against the wall. The Lanisters actually lost more troops than the North. He lost primarily because of perceptions. Can you imagine the Greyjoys, the Boltons and the Freys pull the shit they did against Tywin? No way.

[zalim]

well north cant be controlled easily its massive, wild and cold and its no job for ironmen

Rob would have easily won it back from them afterall he won all battles against Lannis

so i believe yes he coud have won it back

[Winterfell is Burning]

He could and probably would have won the North, but the Riverlands were lost.

[mediocre cheese]

Robb could have won back the north. It would have been difficult if Balon had still been alive, but with him dead, it wouldn't have been too much trouble. The ironborn would have been outnumbered 5-1. There was no way even if the freys had backed him he could have kept the riverlands, though. The tyrells and lannisters would have outnumbered the riverlords by more than 3-1, and the riverlands doesn't have any natural defenses (the way the north does at moat calin).

I presume Tywin would have allowed Robb and the ironborn to fight over the north, than launch his invasion once spring starts, while Robb is still recovering from a northern winter. He could have bypassed moat calin by using redwyne's fleet to ferry soldiers across the neck.

[Arkantos]

He could've won easily if Mr Edmure Tully hadn't forced Tywin to retreat, Stannis would've took King's Landing and there's no way that the Lannisters could've won after that, the problem here being that Stannis was even less likely to split the kingdom, luckily, Edmure is a bit of a derp.

If the Boltons and Freys had not betrayed him then he could've retook the north easily, Moat Cailin wouldn't be much of a hinderance as he already had the plan of going through the marshes to get through to the northern side and then he could've easily sent Bolton with a few hundred men to retake the rest of the north whilst he went back south.

On the other hand, he could've left men at Moat Cailin to make sure Tywin didn't come up his rear whilst he retook the north with his main force, Riverrun should've easily held out with the Twins helping (they always kept some men at home) and I don't think retaking the north would've took too long to be honest.

[Storms End]

He could've won easily if Mr Edmure Tully hadn't forced Tywin to retreat, Stannis would've took King's Landing and there's no way that the Lannisters could've won after that, the problem here being that Stannis was even less likely to split the kingdom, luckily, Edmure is a bit of a derp.

If the Boltons and Freys had not betrayed him then he could've retook the north easily, Moat Cailin wouldn't be much of a hinderance as he already had the plan of going through the marshes to get through to the northern side and then he could've easily sent Bolton with a few hundred men to retake the rest of the north whilst he went back south.

On the other hand, he could've left men at Moat Cailin to make sure Tywin didn't come up his rear whilst he retook the north with his main force, Riverrun should've easily held out with the Twins helping (they always kept some men at home) and I don't think retaking the north would've took too long to be honest.

Pretty much agree with this, I think a lot of people are overestimating what Rob was really up against, he never lost a military battle, the north was manned by a low amount of people who were dying off anyway, he could of retook it and got back to the riverlands easily.

Also, AverageCheese, time travellers can alter the past too.

[David Selig]

The Lannister - Tyrell army was way bigger so he never had a chance. If not Boltons and freys some other nobles would've betrayed him eventually, all of them knew the war was pretty much lost once the Lannister -Tyrell alliance was established and beat Stannis forces.

[The Sleeper]

Robb could have won back the north. It would have been difficult if Balon had still been alive, but with him dead, it wouldn't have been too much trouble. The ironborn would have been outnumbered 5-1. There was no way even if the freys had backed him he could have kept the riverlands, though. The tyrells and lannisters would have outnumbered the riverlords by more than 3-1, and the riverlands doesn't have any natural defenses (the way the north does at moat calin).

I presume Tywin would have allowed Robb and the ironborn to fight over the north, than launch his invasion once spring starts, while Robb is still recovering from a northern winter. He could have bypassed moat calin by using redwyne's fleet to ferry soldiers across the neck.

The mere logistics of keeping a large enough force fed and deployed over such a huge area garantee defeat of the invader. In fact the largest the force they sent to the North the faster they would be defeated. There is a reason the North only bowed to the dragons. For a real life counterpart consider Russia.

[Winterfell is Burning]

The mere logistics of keeping a large enough force fed and deployed over such a huge area garantee defeat of the invader. In fact the largest the force they sent to the North the faster they would be defeated. There is a reason the North only bowed to the dragons. For a real life counterpart consider Russia.

Tywin would effectively be fighting someone that has proven to be a better military commander in a terrain which is much more familiar to his opponent, and in conditions he is more prepared to fight in.

Not to mention, you know, Tywin died, and the Lannisters had many other problems as well.

[Lord Barristan]

Tywin would have found a way to make him bend the knee, even if he retook the north...

Robb and Tywin are probably pretty equal as military commanders, but Tywin understood that "some wars are won with swords others with quills and ravens". Robb didn't have the political knowledge or strategy that Tywin had. Even Robb himself admits he should have traded Sansa for Jaime and then married her to Ser Loras.

Overall, Tywin would win. He is by far the most epic character of the series. Wish he was still around.

[The Sleeper]

Actually, the only thing that Tywin accomplished during the was of the five kings was to defeat (but not destroy) a force inferior to his own comprised entirely of infantry and then get pinned at Harrenhal while Robb was in the west taking castle after castle and oblitarating his reserves. The Lannisters started the war with 45000 troops and finished with something like 15000.

His previous accomplishments included.

- Having his fleet burned inside Lannisport.

- Sacking a city that had opened its gates.

- destroying two of his bannermen.

All in all, Tywin may have been a shrewd politician and cultivated a fearful image but there is nothing to indicate that he actually was a paritcularly able military commander.

Besides Robb had the Blackfish with him. It is unclear who was responsible for planning, but the Blackfish had far greater experience in war than Tywin.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Ummm... Robb had the WHOLE support of the north. THE NORTH. How couldn't he have won at a split south?!?! The Martell's would've betrayed the Lannisters at the first second, the Tyrell's would've betrayed the Lannisters, Oldtown would've declared neutral, and the Ironmen would [as usual] gone solo. And Dany would be sitting 1000 miles away in Essos.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Dreaded double post -__-

[Spring Bass]

Assuming that he manages to secure Moat Cailin, Robb could easily hold off a Southron force at the neck until Winter hits in full force. At that point, military campaigns are going to slow down, and he's got room to breathe for a few years . . . in a normal Winter (in this one, probably not).

[mediocre cheese]

The mere logistics of keeping a large enough force fed and deployed over such a huge area garantee defeat of the invader. In fact the largest the force they sent to the North the faster they would be defeated. There is a reason the North only bowed to the dragons. For a real life counterpart consider Russia.

Russia has been conquered, by the mongols. The whole Tatar yoke lasted for centuries. And Russia is only a huge area because so much of it was won by conquest. Look at the kingdom of Ivan Grozny for comparison to the present day size of CIS.

There was no guarantee an invasion of the north would be unsuccessful, any more than the conquest of the riverlands was successful. Northern Lords might switch sides (as they did), Robb might sue for peace ect.

Riverrun should've easily held out with the Twins helping (they always kept some men at home) and I don't think retaking the north would've took too long to be honest.

Riverrun was not going to be able to hold out for a year against the combined tyrell-lannister army. The riverlords command 20,000 soldiers at the start of the war. The lannister tyrell force had 70,000 at the blackwater alone. Without Robb and the northern army there was no way they they could have stood against the crown.

[The King in the South]

Ummm... Robb had the WHOLE support of the north. THE NORTH. How couldn't he have won at a split south?!?! The Martell's would've betrayed the Lannisters at the first second, the Tyrell's would've betrayed the Lannisters, Oldtown would've declared neutral, and the Ironmen would [as usual] gone solo. And Dany would be sitting 1000 miles away in Essos.

Why would the Tyrells betray the Lannisters? The two were joined by marriage...Oldtown is sworn to Highgarden, they can't declare neutral, and they've already supplied troops that have fought and killed men of Robbs. And the Martells aren't going to get themselves killed off for some king thousands of miles away. They would only rise for a Targaryen, but who knows if one of them would reach Westeroes before Robb was wiped out.

[Petyr Middlefinger Baelish]

Why would the Tyrells betray the Lannisters? The two were joined by marriage...Oldtown is sworn to Highgarden, they can't declare neutral, and they've already supplied troops that have fought and killed men of Robbs. And the Martells aren't going to get themselves killed off for some king thousands of miles away. They would only rise for a Targaryen, but who knows if one of them would reach Westeroes before Robb was wiped out.

Robb would of had a better chance turning Dorne against the Lannisters than the Tyrells. He could have easily won back the North with the plan he had devised before the Red Wedding. With Tywin dead and Cersei running the show it would be a cakewalk to march south to victory. How he would have fared against dragons is another story.

[The King in the South]

Robb would of had a better chance turning Dorne against the Lannisters than the Tyrells. He could have easily won back the North with the plan he had devised before the Red Wedding. With Tywin dead and Cersei running the show it would be a cakewalk to march south to victory. How he would have fared against dragons is another story.

Why does everyone assume Dorne would side with the North? They hate the Lannisters, but they don't give a shit about some 16 year old king. Were talking about Do-Nothing-Doran here remember?

And I don't see how it would be a cakewalk, with his combined forces Robb probably had 25k men tops, compared to 60k-80k Lann/Tyrell. And it's not like Cersei would be leading the battles, Randall Tarly was already crushing half of Robb's Army during the Red Wedding.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Why does everyone assume Dorne would side with the North? They hate the Lannisters, but they don't give a shit about some 16 year old king. Were talking about Do-Nothing-Doran here remember?

Doran's options would be running out. He would either support The King in the North, or the Lannisters. He knows how the Lannister's are treating him. Yet if he sides with the North [easily eliminating Lannister/Tyrell alliance since they would be cornered], he might get a very rewarding win. Robb would most likely give the South to Dorne, and then Doran would be able to scheme with the Targaryens much easier.