Hound's She-wolf Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I believe that Sansa chose to trust Sandor in a certain way because he was not in a position to harm her as long as he worked for Joffrey. He may have been a sort of confessor or father replacement for her, natural, after all he is more than twice her age. In a way she could trust him because he had no reason to betray her. Fortunately she was too young to understand that he intended to rape her, she felt threatened but not in a sexual manner, her luck, otherwise she would have been thoroughly disturbed. So she might continue trusting him - until, being older, she realizes that Sandor has completely different ideas about their interactions than she has. She will wake up and know what to be afraid of.Being in Joffrey's employ actually put Sandor in a position to abuse her, you do remember that all the other Kingsgurad members did beat her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 I would love to see Sandor interact with the Wildlings. "So none of you are afraid of my scars? You only care about how strong and fierce I am? And noobody thinks that crazy bitch with the dog head on her spear is weird? Or the guy wearing clothing made out of bones? Huh."Sandor, the King beyond the Wall. Seriously. He would have had Mance for breakfast. I can see him getting on very well with the wildlings in one way, and then been horrified by them as well. He still has that fractured nobility.I've often wondered if Sandor has more blood of the first men than Andals. He looks like a Northman from his description. Also if the Andal invasion is meant to mimic the Norman invasion, then it would only be the elite with Andal blood and the grandson of a kennel keeper is more likely to hail from the original First men genetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 Plus, he was in the Kingsguard, and was reasonably trusted by the Lannisters. He would have quite a bit of insider knowledge.Not to mention a PR coup. Joff's sworn sword and member of the Kingsguard has defected because.......add in all the insest and Joff being a bastard and all the beatings he witnessed Sansa take....well that certainly would raise more headaches for the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Plus, he was in the Kingsguard, and was reasonably trusted by the Lannisters. He would have quite a bit of insider knowledge.Do you think he knows about the incest between Queen Cersei and your namesake? Or about Bran's fall?If they still had Jaime when he arrived with news about Sansa's treatment... oh boy. I would pity the Kingslayer, if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Being in Joffrey's employ actually put Sandor in a position to abuse her, you do remember that all the other Kingsgurad members did beat her?Which is why when he finally fed up with the Lannisters, he comes to her and offers her his protection fully. It may not be the grandest gesture to some, but in a world where deserting a battle is tantamount to death, Sandor could have easily slunk off and left Sansa. He makes the offer however, and then leaves without forcing her to go. So much is made of Jaime's saving Brienne, but hey, Sandor went back too :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sandor, the King beyond the Wall. Seriously. He would have had Mance for breakfast. I can see him getting on very well with the wildlings in one way, and then been horrified by them as well. He still has that fractured nobility.I've often wondered if Sandor has more blood of the first men than Andals. He looks like a Northman from his description. Also if the Andal invasion is meant to mimic the Norman invasion, then it would only be the elite with Andal blood and the grandson of a kennel keeper is more likely to hail from the original First men genetics.I agree that he would be attracted yet still horrified by some their "customs". He has a northern look to him, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up the Cleganes have nothern blood.I had said a long time ago I'd like to see him be King of the Wildlings. Hey, maybe that's how the North gets retaken and a Stark restored to Winterfell. Might be crackpot, but that's what I'ma going with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well the wildlings are officially back in Westeros now, so he wouldn't be a King beyond the wall, but I could see him playing a big role in the North and helping with the resettlement. I think he's had his fill of the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I think Sandor would have been really happy in the North. They don't have knights there. I felt so bad for him during the Red Wedding; I could practically hear his heart singing at the Bolton man's response to being called Ser and then Poof! completely crushed. :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I wish that we had got a scene with Sandor and Tyrion's Burned Man, Timmet. Or at least a reaction. That had so much potential... :lmao:I could see him calling them all crazy fuckers and then becoming a clan leader. Maybe that's how he gets Sansa out of the Vale. He takes over the Clans and raids the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Do you think he knows about the incest between Queen Cersei and your namesake? Or about Bran's fall?Well, for his faults, Sandor is a clever guy. He's known the Lannisters for the better part of his life, and when something as obvious as Prince Joffrey and his golden curls are dangled in front of you every single day... I think it's possible he knew. Or at least, had an inclination; he probably wouldn't act on it even if he did. There's nothing to gain there for him; at least until he abandoned their cause and headed north...I could picture him curling his lips in a smirk when Stannis' slander letter started to circulate though.As for Bran... that's interesting. If Joffrey would ever confide in someone about his misdeeds (ie, his assassination attempt), it would almost certainly be his bodyguard and proxy father figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaughterOfThe9Moons Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 ALL those forced and arranged marriages in Westeros are totally twisted for our values. So a relationship with trust and friendship where you are totally safe because your husband loves your brother is far better than being at the mercy of whatever randomly chosen guy. And Renly may have closed his eyes and thought of the realm from time to time to make pretty babies, whereas he could hardly have objected if Margaery would have found some fun elsewhere.I don't necessarily agree although I think you make a good point that she would be relatively safe in this relationship. The fact is that there is (probably) just as much of a chance of her being married to a good guy where she had a chance for real love and a marriage that was all her own. It seems as though you believe that she should be grateful for this relationship when I think, maybe not initially, but certainly over time, she would have become resentful watching her husband and brother fulfilled while she is forced to present an outwardly happy face whilst being romantically unsatisfied. I also don't know that Renly would have been perfectly okay with her sleeping around. Sure, he would not have been personally invested in her love life, but kings have their pride and I doubt he would have felt comforted at the prospect that any child she bore may not be his own. A king is only going to want his own heir on the throne.ETA: Also, WTF Twilight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_lange_sommer_31 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The Twilight comparison is making me want to do this... :bang: . Twilight is published corn-ball fan fiction sorry to say it, but that's how i feel, and the comparison "fan girls" make to Romeo and Juliet makes me want to barf and hang myself at the same time... On the subject of shippers of Sandor and Sansa.We are grown ups, and i have yet to come across an irrational / over-romantizing San/San fan, and i am one of many who have said millions of times that i would not accept any relationship between the two unless Sansa were older (should anything actually happen between the two). Sandor is significantly older, which any relationship between them would not be acceptable, even in a fantasy enviorment where 13 is considered practically a woman. In the world GRRM has created you virtually couldnt marry anyone if it were RL. I think we are all aware of the things the Hound has done, but i have never felt Sansa was in any sort of danger when around him. I don't believe Tyrion would of harmed her either, though their relationship was bad for the both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Loras was Renly's squire. I'm not really seeing the relationship between equals here. A sword is not a Colt .45, but it can be an equalizer in the hands of a skilled swordsman. Loras had a sword, and he knows how to use it. Sansa hasn't even thought about sticking anyone with the pointy end. His situation and hers aren't comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ok I promised not to post here anymore and after I have read THAT I'll keep my promise. I can only hope that you were not serious about it, you indicated something like that.But this is simply disgusting. You prefer someone who stopped himself at the last moment from committing a really cruel rape of a child to a rather romantic lovestory - this is far beyond my understanding.I simply give up, these Sandor threads are utterly irrational and in no way justified by what is in the books.Honestly, if it pisses you off so much, please feel free to leave. You don't like us, you don't even want to engage in respectful debate, don't even consider for a moment we might have a point.I am willing to consider your point of view if you provide evidence for your views in a respectful manner. How you currently shape your posts does not meet that criteria.You read it one way, and that's fine. But this thread will continue to piss you off, so save yourself the rage and whatever else. I personally don't feel like hearing myself compared to a fan of Twilight again, or in other ways being made to feel like an illogical, twisted person.There is in fact justification to be found in the books for this theory. If you want to say there isn't go ahead.I'll believe all the intents of rape and domestic abuse like you claim when I see them either happen or they are talked about explicitly in the books, preferrably from someone like Sandor himself, or EB/Meribald who heard his confession.And no, don't point me back to the "rape her bloody, rip out her heart scene." That does not qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'll believe all the intents of rape and domestic abuse like you claim when I see them either happen or they are talked about explicitly in the books, preferrably from someone like Sandor himself, or EB/Meribald who heard his confession.Interestingly, Prince Tyrion has not only actually raped women, but he has also actually physically abused and murdered a sex partner. He threatened another, unwilling sex partner with the same. There is no textual evidence that Sandor has ever done such a thing. It can be speculated that he has, based on certain commentary (and I don't happen to think that he has) but it is CANON that Tyrion has.Also, the Twilight references and denigrations really need to stop. I haven't read the books, although I had the misfortune of seeing two of the movies, but I'm not sure exactly what Sandor and Sansa have to do with Edward and Bella, or with Twilight. Is Sandor a vampire now or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ok I promised not to post here anymore and after I have read THAT I'll keep my promise. I can only hope that you were not serious about it, you indicated something like that.But this is simply disgusting. You prefer someone who stopped himself at the last moment from committing a really cruel rape of a child to a rather romantic lovestory - this is far beyond my understanding.I simply give up, these Sandor threads are utterly irrational and in no way justified by what is in the books.Frankly, Woman of War, I find this to be the height of hypocrisy, coming from you. You've made it clear in your comments on other threads that you hope Sansa learns to appreciate and throws herself at the feet of poor, misunderstood widdle Tyrion, and that their marriage eventually works out. And all this despite the fact that Tyrion is a murderer and a rapist who killed the last woman he was in love with. I love how you just gloss over that and act like that immature, bitchy, shallow Sansa should grow up and understand how ~amazing~ your beloved Tyrion is, while coming in here on your hypocritical, self-righteous high horse and trying to act morally superior to us for shipping her with Sandor Clegane -- a man who, for all his past faults, has not raped or murdered any woman he professed to love.Really, your self-righteous hypocrisy is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, the Twilight references and denigrations really need to stop. I haven't read the books, although I had the misfortune of seeing two of the movies, but I'm not sure exactly what Sandor and Sansa have to do with Edward and Bella, or with Twilight. Is Sandor a vampire now or something?I had the misfortune of reading them. I was teaching and my students insisted I read them because they were sooo good. I soon learned the truth. The movies are an even bigger travesty however. :(Back on topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I had the misfortune of reading them. I was teaching and my students insisted I read them because they were sooo good. I soon learned the truth. The movies are an even bigger travesty however. :(Back on topic...Oh, I almost died. Especially on the second one, when she started throwing herself off cliffs to get his attention. :stillsick:Sookie Stackhouse for unhealthy vampire relationships!Back on topic... so in what way is Sandor comparable to Edward/Jacob/Whomever again? We could compare him to Eric in the whole poor understanding of boundaries, though. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I had the misfortune of reading them. I was teaching and my students insisted I read them because they were sooo good. I soon learned the truth. The movies are an even bigger travesty however. :(Back on topic...My little brother (of all people) said i should read them. I did, and this was my face ---> :ack:He said I'd love them. I had to ask him "Really?" when I finished them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Back on topic... so in what way is Sandor comparable to Edward/Jacob/Whomever again? We could compare him to Eric in the whole poor understanding of boundaries, though. :lol:Yeah, I was going to say he's a bit like Edward in that he's stalkery when it comes to his crush. :lol: Sandor would never cross the line into sneaking into her room so he could watch her sleep though. :eek: I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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