The Dragonlance Books

[Verboten]

Sturm goes to the moon is definitely on the top "What the fuck TSR" list. Anything about kender is up there too, and I could have a field day with FR, but Once around the Realms probably stands out as THE WORST BOOK EVER WRITTEN IN ANY GENRE OR LANGUAGE EVER. Like, good god. I've read the Pools of Radiance tie ins, and Greenwood, and Goodkind, and shit ,some later Ann Rice, and I even tried TWLIGHT once, and they do not compare to the shit that is that book.

Fuck. I've read better Xanth novels.

I'm getting this from the library now.

[Jaxom 1974]

Brooks and Eddings came before Dragonlance.

As others have pointed out, Dragonlance came pretty late in the development of the early-modern epic fantasy. Dragons of Autumn Twilight came out in 1984, so was preceded by Brooks' Sword of Shannara (1977), Donaldson's Lord Foul's Bane (1977, but definitely not for kids), Feist's Magician (1982) and Eddings' Pawn of Prophecy (1982), among numerous others.

Salvatore came later, with The Crystal Shard being published in 1988, and certainly the idea of a Forgotten Realms novel line was inspired by the success of the Dragonlance line, so that's a fair comment.

Busted for improper information and what not.

I stand by my premise though.

[Grack21]

I'm getting this from the library now.

Remember, you're not supposed to look directly at it.

[althanis]

Wow I'd never heard of Sturm going to the moon before, sounds like it'll be so bad it might just actually be good.

[Grack21]

Wow I'd never heard of Sturm going to the moon before, sounds like it'll be so bad it might just actually be good.

It's not.

[williamjm]

Wow I'd never heard of Sturm going to the moon before, sounds like it'll be so bad it might just actually be good.

If you're really curious, the book is called Darkness and Light. I can't really remember what the writing was like, but it was definitely one of the stranger Dragonlance plots, particularly because Sturm and Kitiara's trip to the moon was effectively a subplot, it did feel a bit like the authors were writing a book about Sturm's quest to find what happened to his father, but they got bored of that plot and sent him to a moon for half a book instead. I vaguely remember a long time ago seeing a conversation online where someone pointed out to Paul Thompson, the book's author, that the book's description of lightning striking a wooden spaceship didn't follow the laws of physics. Thompson replied by questioning whether that was really the thing in the book that should be highlighted as being the most implausible.

Sturm goes to the moon is definitely on the top "What the fuck TSR" list. Anything about kender is up there too, and I could have a field day with FR, but Once around the Realms probably stands out as THE WORST BOOK EVER WRITTEN IN ANY GENRE OR LANGUAGE EVER. Like, good god. I've read the Pools of Radiance tie ins, and Greenwood, and Goodkind, and shit ,some later Ann Rice, and I even tried TWLIGHT once, and they do not compare to the shit that is that book.

Fortunately I never read Once Around the Realms but I do remember some Forgotten Realms books that made Darkness and Light look like a masterpiece by comparison. Probably, Ed Greenwood's Crown of Fire was the worst of them I read, there were other books that had similarly poor writing (anything by Scott Ciencen or the Pools of Radiance books, for example) but the plotting in Crown of Fire managed to be largely incomprehensible as well

[Grack21]

If you're really curious, the book is called Darkness and Light. I can't really remember what the writing was like, but it was definitely one of the stranger Dragonlance plots, particularly because Sturm and Kitiara's trip to the moon was effectively a subplot, it did feel a bit like the authors were writing a book about Sturm's quest to find what happened to his father, but they got bored of that plot and sent him to a moon for half a book instead. I vaguely remember a long time ago seeing a conversation online where someone pointed out to Paul Thompson, the book's author, that the book's description of lightning striking a wooden spaceship didn't follow the laws of physics. Thompson replied by questioning whether that was really the thing in the book that should be highlighted as being the most implausible.

Fortunately I never read Once Around the Realms but I do remember some Forgotten Realms books that made Darkness and Light look like a masterpiece by comparison. Probably, Ed Greenwood's Crown of Fire was the worst of them I read, there were other books that had similarly poor writing (anything by Scott Ciencen or the Pools of Radiance books, for example) but the plotting in Crown of Fire managed to be largely incomprehensible as well

Oh the Greenwood Spellfire books are terrible, but

at the end of the third one SHE EXPLODES and everyone is sad and depressed. the end. hilarious. i laughed for hours after that one

[williamjm]

Oh the Greenwood Spellfire books are terrible, but

at the end of the third one SHE EXPLODES and everyone is sad and depressed. the end. hilarious. i laughed for hours after that one

Now I'm almost disappointed I stopped after the second book. It sounds like that ending might have made the experience of reading them slightly less painful.

[alguien]

Are we talking about Elminster? Is he still around?

Last I read, the Spellplague killed off a bunch of Realms characters...

[Werthead]

Are we talking about Elminster? Is he still around?

Yes. In 4E he's been driven insane by the Spellplague and is nowhere near as powerful as he once was, or something. 4E FR is so shit that no-one really cares any more.

Once around the Realms probably stands out as THE WORST BOOK EVER WRITTEN IN ANY GENRE OR LANGUAGE EVER.

I have read this one. It had a good idea at its heart (an Around the World in Eighty Days parody in a fictional fantasy world) but poor execution, and terrible writing. It's not the worst book ever - it's nowhere near as bad as Kevin J. Anderson on a good day - but it's pretty weak sauce. In its defence I've heard it was written by the book line's editor on the grounds that the editor should be familiar with the process of writing a novel himself, rather than because he was dying to write the story.

[alguien]

Yes. In 4E he's been driven insane by the Spellplague and is nowhere near as powerful as he once was, or something. 4E FR is so shit that no-one really cares any more.

I think I remember you posting about this in the RPG thread. I know its a bit of a thread drift, but what exactly was the reason for all this Spellplague stuff?

Sounds like it pretty much did away with basically all the Realms books.

[Arthmail]

I actually got it in to my head sometime back in 02 to collect every Realms books and read them all. Collection? Complete. Reading? Fuck no. Got to 1999ish and those Baldur's Gate Tie ins just killed me. I suppose I'll get back to them someday, i here a lot of stuff from the Kemp era is decent.

Also, I present to you, the worst Dragonlance book:

http://www.amazon.co...23228168&sr=8-1

Hahahahahaha. Did you read the description? It says they are plagued by something called the World Gash. Hahahahahaha. A world vagina. Hahahahah. I''m five.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

i always hated Sturm, but going to the moon? That's news to me...

[Greyjoy the Reaver]

I read the Dragonlance stories when I was still in high school. Which was some time ago. But I liked them a lot. The Chronicles and Legends series were great. Krynn was a very well imagined world. I loved the town of Solace, which was built in the trees. Weis and Hickman teamed up on an even better series later when they wrote the Deathgate Cycle. Hugh the Hand is one of my favorite characters.

[Werthead]

I think I remember you posting about this in the RPG thread. I know its a bit of a thread drift, but what exactly was the reason for all this Spellplague stuff?

Sounds like it pretty much did away with basically all the Realms books.

Wizards of the Coast figured that people weren't playing in the Realms (they were, it's their biggest-selling campaign setting by some considerable margin) because they were overwhelmed by its complexity, although that's also its most distinguishing feature, the level of detail and history and the sheer size of the Realms and the amount of stuff there is to do there. So basically they decided to do a reboot/update by moving the timeline on another 100 years and nuking the setting. The problem is that they pissed off all the existing fans and very few new fans came on board. 4E D&D itself is controversial, but even people who really enjoy the 4E ruleset seem to hate what they've done to the Realms, and either don't play there any more or have adapted the 3E-era setting to the 4E rules.

The fundamental misunderstanding of the Realms is that it has this massive backstory and history but - unlike Dragonlance - 99.99% of it is completely irrelevant to any of the novels, or any campaign you might want to run set there. It wasn't really a problem for people, but WotC thought it was and set out to solve something that didn't need fixing, alienating the fanbase in the process. A very odd decision.

[Grack21]

I'm kind of shocked more of you don't know about Sturm's moon trip. It's one of those so terrbile even other DL authors mock it things.

Ohhh Spellplauge....I don;t even know where to start with the shit WotC has been up to. I know they had to pay Salvatore in gold bricks in order not to get him to jump ship. Nuked the setting isn't harsh enough a description. Pretty much EVERY CHARACTER AND STORY EVER is dead and no longer matters. Excpet I think Elminster is a young girl or now something....

God I dunno just thinking about it hurts inside.

They also killed Eberon and the Dragonlance book lines. It's all generic D&D world stuff no wwith a FR book or two. Although they got some of their authors back(Kemp jumped sip and was very vocal about his...dislike for the current...er...creative..well he said the people in charge are fucks).

Wasn't there a big shakeup last year? Things are planned so far in advance now it's hard to tell.

I'm rambling.

.

[Spring Bass]

They killed Eberron? That makes me sad - I liked the whole "magic gone partially through the equivalent of an industrial revolution" vibe they had going.

What gets me is how detailed they make the universe cosmology. There have got to be dozens of alternate planes of reality.

[Jaxom 1974]

If you're really curious, the book is called Darkness and Light. I can't really remember what the writing was like, but it was definitely one of the stranger Dragonlance plots, particularly because Sturm and Kitiara's trip to the moon was effectively a subplot, it did feel a bit like the authors were writing a book about Sturm's quest to find what happened to his father, but they got bored of that plot and sent him to a moon for half a book instead. I vaguely remember a long time ago seeing a conversation online where someone pointed out to Paul Thompson, the book's author, that the book's description of lightning striking a wooden spaceship didn't follow the laws of physics. Thompson replied by questioning whether that was really the thing in the book that should be highlighted as being the most implausible.

I'm kind of shocked more of you don't know about Sturm's moon trip. It's one of those so terrbile even other DL authors mock it things.

.

Yet Weis and Hickman used the story to advance the Steel Brightblade story. At least they up and dismissed the whole concept of going to the moon in the process right there in the story itself...

[Miryana]

They may not be high art, but I still get all nostalgic when I think about Chronicles/Legends and their original Elmore covers. Not everything has to be ASOIAF, and Legends in particular tells a decent enough story without taking 7+ massive books to do it. I don't know as much about the other DL novels, but I did read "Sturm & Kit go to the moon" - its famous badness didn't leave much of an impression on me, since I can't remember any details beyond the moon trip and the fact that gnomes (I think) lived there.

Wasn't the old wizard guy kind of a dirty old man?

There was a dirty old man in every Greenwood book I read when I was younger and devoured all the available fantasy literature. He really likes his "true love of old man/young hottie" pairings; sometimes there's more than one in a book. Since pretty much all the female archmages were gorgeous, I did end up wondering why none of the old mages wanted to make themselves look like Brad Pitt - then they'd get even more hotties, but no, apparently a guy's gotta stay true to his beard and worn robes.

[Shryke]

Yeah, it was Elminster!

Wait, that's a real thing?

Does he have an ambulatory dresser?