Wind's Points of View.

[mor2]

Was there any news of other POV beside the Aeron Greyjoy, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Arianne Martell, Theon Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy?

[protar]

Essentially it's just that people want an "armchair view" of Swann vs Darkstar if it should occur.

Personally I don't think it will. I reckon Balon's being led into a trap and Darkstar is really gone to Starfall, or to meet up with Aegon. If it does happen though I think we'll see it through the prologue.

[TheKindlyMan]

I disagree... remember how we've seen several characters (Lord Beric and Victarion) healed by Red Priests (Dondarrion restored after myriad deaths by Thoros of Myr and Greyjoy's hand by Moquorro). Although the healing always had consequences; it served to embolden them or set them more firmly on their paths. Lord Beric began to forget himself as he was before the beginning of the war (so in that respect, perhaps the "Jon we knew" is gone or changed for ever). Victarion begins to strike his own path after his hand is healed, deciding to take Danerys for himself.

Cat was dead for around four days before she was resurrected by Lord Beric. The circumstances around her resurrection are also different from the aforementioned characters: she was not saved just after death or healed from a mortal wound. Furthermore, she was killed by traitors rather than killed/wounded during battle for her chosen cause, as the others. This made her resurrected form seek only revenge, rather than pursuing her destiny with all the more vigor (revenge was all that was left for her).

I tend to think Jon will be resurrected (if dead) or healed (if dying) by Melissandre. This would also enter him officially into the running as the Prince Who Was Promised / Azor Ahi Reborn (which would also add credence to the R + L = J theories).

This all goes to say... I'm willing to convince myself that Jon can't be dead and will cite any plausible (or flimsy) piece of evidence to delude myself.

I think the evidence is pretty solid. Consider the House of the Undying chapter where Dany's visions include "A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly." I think you're pretty justified in your hypothesis.

[Dornish Bannerman]

Personally I think GRRM should stop with minor POVs. Both Quentyn and Barristan had four chapters in ADwD, they should have been major, in my opinion.

As for POVs in TWoW, I would only have major ones;

Dany, Tyrion, Victarion, Arianne, Tyene, Jon Connington, Cersei, Jaime, Samwell, Jon Snow, Davos, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Damphair, Theon. Don't think I missed anyone there. Melisandre and Barristan as potential POVs.

[blackseer]

Personally I think GRRM should stop with minor POVs. Both Quentyn and Barristan had four chapters in ADwD, they should have been major, in my opinion.

As for POVs in TWoW, I would only have major ones;

Dany, Tyrion, Victarion, Arianne, Tyene, Jon Connington, Cersei, Jaime, Samwell, Jon Snow, Davos, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Damphair, Theon. Don't think I missed anyone there. Melisandre and Barristan as potential POVs.

You missed Brienne, who is a major POV, and Asha, who has the potential to become one. And you added Tyene, who has no reason to become a POV yet.

Was there any news of other POV beside the Aeron Greyjoy, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Arianne Martell, Theon Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy?

Now we have Tyrion.

[protar]

You missed Brienne, who is a major POV, and Asha, who has the potential to become one. And you added Tyene, who has no reason to become a POV yet. Now we have Tyrion.

I doubt Brienne or Asha will have POV's in TWOW. They're currently joined up with Jaime and Theon respectively who are much more important so the stories will probably be told from their POV's. Martin could switch between Theon/Asha and Jaime/Brienne but personally I feel it would clutter up the story, and in any case George rarely puts two POV's in the same place for a prolonged period of time, the main exception being KL.

Which leads me on to my second point which is that Tyene has very good reasons to become a POV. So far KL has always had more than one POV, as it's such a large location, and is so multifaceted:

GOT: Eddard, Catelyn, Sansa, Arya

COK: Tyrion, Sansa, Davos

SOS: Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime

AFFC: Jaime, Cersei

ADWD: Cersei, Kevan

Yet in TWOW Cersei is the only POV in KL. Now sure we might get Aegon invading KL at some point, giving us Joncon and possibly Arianne as a POV, but I doubt that'll happen until the very end. In the meantime we need someone to supplement Cersei's POV and Tyene is perfect. Not only can she give us some political information, but she can also give us a window into the mechanisms of The Faith, which is very important.

[Loras]

I doubt Brienne or Asha will have POV's in TWOW. They're currently joined up with Jaime and Theon respectively who are much more important so the stories will probably be told from their POV's. Martin could switch between Theon/Asha and Jaime/Brienne but personally I feel it would clutter up the story, and in any case George rarely puts two POV's in the same place for a prolonged period of time, the main exception being KL.

I disagree quite strongly here. While you are correct in terms of having multiple viewpoint characters in one location, the exception being King's Landing, I don't think you can apply this logic as a reason to exclude Brienne and Asha from the viewpoint list. Brienne particularly will need chapters to rationalise her decision to 'betray' Jaime. We saw throughout AFFC that Brienne admires Jaime an awful lot and her quest was with the intention of regaining his honour. She has done a complete turnaround and we have not been privy to her thoughts. I think that the 'JAIME' chapter in ADWD would have been better serviced by being a 'BRIENNE' chapter.

Equally Asha is going to be required to rationalise her thoughts on killing Theon (THEON I), when in her own chapter, 'THE WAYWARD BRIDE' she considers using him to fight Euron's claim. There is a lot going on with both of these women that is going to require viewpoint chapters to understand the development and u-turns in their character.

That being said, I tend to agree with you that TYENE will be a viewpoint character in the next novel, someone is going to be required to inform the reader on the inner workings of the Faith and their future role. Not to mention, her interactions with Nym. I would also suggest that the High Septon will support Cersei being the regent once again if there is a Faith of the Seven representative on the Small Council.

[blackseer]

I doubt Brienne or Asha will have POV's in TWOW. They're currently joined up with Jaime and Theon respectively who are much more important so the stories will probably be told from their POV's. Martin could switch between Theon/Asha and Jaime/Brienne but personally I feel it would clutter up the story, and in any case George rarely puts two POV's in the same place for a prolonged period of time, the main exception being KL.

Which leads me on to my second point which is that Tyene has very good reasons to become a POV. So far KL has always had more than one POV, as it's such a large location, and is so multifaceted:

GOT: Eddard, Catelyn, Sansa, Arya

COK: Tyrion, Sansa, Davos

SOS: Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime

AFFC: Jaime, Cersei

ADWD: Cersei, Kevan

Yet in TWOW Cersei is the only POV in KL. Now sure we might get Aegon invading KL at some point, giving us Joncon and possibly Arianne as a POV, but I doubt that'll happen until the very end. In the meantime we need someone to supplement Cersei's POV and Tyene is perfect. Not only can she give us some political information, but she can also give us a window into the mechanisms of The Faith, which is very important.

We don't know for how long Jaime/Brienne and Theon/Asha will be together. Theon will have to escape his iminent death and that might lead him to the Wall. Asha will participate in the Battle of Ice and will probably follow Stannis for some time.

Jaime could be dead by now, but I believe Stoneheart will keep him as a hostage to send Brienne in other missions and to extract informations on the different hosts in the Riverlands. Jaime knows that Darry and Harrenhall have small hosts protecting them, that the Riverrun host is too big for the castle and that the hostages from the RW are being transported to KL.

And until GRRM goes back to writing the book and says he needs a new POV, I won't agree with any new POV. Besides, a Tyene POV isn't needed. We had plenty of the Faith from Cersei before and we don't need every single piece of information. The new High Septon and the Sand Snakes are much more menacing the way they are now and bring their POV so soon would disrupt that feeling. However, knowing what are Lady Nym's thoughts on the small council would be fun.

[protar]

@Loras

We don't neccesarily need to see every characters reasoning for doing everything, it's part of what makes the series great. And in any case, my personal opinion is that Brienne is now Unbrienne. Seeing as undeath seems to focus and concentrate characters, it may be that Brienne is now magically bound to carry out any oath she makes. So she could perhaps have promised Uncat to bring her Jaime, thinking to decieve her, but finding out that she was forced to obey. Just speculation, but it gets rid of the neccesity for us to see in to Brienne's head. As for Asha, I think BRan may be influencing events there, and the less we're spoiled about their plans the better.

@Blackseer

I have different ideas on how Theon will escape his beheading related to BRan, and while I agree he'll be turning up at The Wall at the end of the book, I think that he (And Asha.) will remain with Stannis for most of the book. So using my own projection of what I think is going to happen (and you can hardly blame me for agreeing with myself i'd hope.) only Theon is neccessary as a POV. However if they split, then yes I hope Asha becomes a POV, and she may return as a POV in the last book(s) once Martin's made some room on the POV list (i.e murdering characters.). I also don't think that Brienne or Jaime will split (in fact I'm seeing BRan's influence here as well.)

On Tyene, I disagree that her POV would serve to make things less threatening. The sandsnakes aren't really villains, and seem to have little more than base cunning, so we lose little by knowing their plans outright. And we've already had Arrianne and Areo giving us plenty of insight into Dorne and Doran's plans. As to The Faith, Tyene would still be an outsider. I doubt the high septon will be divulging all his plans to her straight away. So we'll get more information than we would from just Cersei, but we'd still be kept in the dark. And there still remains the problem that Cersei is the only POV in KL currently, and I feel that we need more than that. Just 5 or 6 Tyene chapters could really flesh out the KL subplot.

[Loras]

We don't neccesarily need to see every characters reasoning for doing everything, it's part of what makes the series great. And in any case, my personal opinion is that Brienne is now Unbrienne. Seeing as undeath seems to focus and concentrate characters, it may be that Brienne is now magically bound to carry out any oath she makes. So she could perhaps have promised Uncat to bring her Jaime, thinking to decieve her, but finding out that she was forced to obey. Just speculation, but it gets rid of the neccesity for us to see in to Brienne's head. As for Asha, I think BRan may be influencing events there, and the less we're spoiled about their plans the better.

I really don't buy in to the UnBrienne theory. It makes so little sense to have built an entire character arc around honour and oathkeeping, just to kill her off without having made the decision (between sword and noose and honour and dishonour).

Brienne has a massive story to tell in the next book, it would be a disservice to the character and to the novels to not show us the conflict in her head. I understand that there is a necessity to condense the story, but it should not be done at the expense of the characters!

[protar]

I really don't buy in to the UnBrienne theory. It makes so little sense to have built an entire character arc around honour and oathkeeping, just to kill her off without having made the decision (between sword and noose and honour and dishonour).

Brienne has a massive story to tell in the next book, it would be a disservice to the character and to the novels to not show us the conflict in her head. I understand that there is a necessity to condense the story, but it should not be done at the expense of the characters!

But that would be the whole point. Her dedication to keeping her promises would result in her being compelled to betray Jaime, all the while not wanting to do it. It would be tragic, but I don't think we need to be inside her head. And aside from that, Brienne is imo the worst POV in the entire series. I really prefer her as Jaime's companion than as her own POV. And if you don't beleive in Unbrienne well that's really a discussion for another thread. To me Jaime is much more interesting and neccessary, and I don't really care for Brienne except as a part of Jaime's story so imo all her development should be done through his POV.

[Josephxoxo]

To many POV's imo. There should be more than 10-12

[Arkash]

So, we have, officialy:

Theon.

Tyrion.

Victarion.

Arianne.

Aeron.

Sansa.

Arya.

Things take shape... slowly, but surely.

[bassplayerdragonslayer]

Here's what I think/hope-

Tyrion-10 chapters

Jon- 9 chapters

Jaime- 7 chapters

Cersei- 4 chapters

Daenerys- 7 chapters

Theon- 6 chapters

Victarion- 5 chapters

Aeron- 3 chapters

Asha- 3 chapters

Sansa- 5 chapters

Arya- 6 chapters

Davos- 7 chapters

Bran- 4 chapters

Arianne- 2 chapters

Jon Connington- 3 chapters

[Arkash]

Where's Sam there?

I'd go more for:

Sansa - 9 chapters.

Samwell - 8 chapters.

Cersei - 8 chapters.

Jaime - 7 chapters... or 2 if he's to die soon.

Daenerys - 6 chapters.

Tyrion - 7 chapters.

Barristan - 1 chapter.

Victarion - 3 chapters.

Aeron - 2 chapters.

Asha - 5 chapters.

Thein - 3 chapters.

Connington - 2 chapters.

Arianne - 4 chapters.

Areo Hotah - 1 chapter.

Davos - 5 chapters.

Bran - 2 chapters.

Arya - 4 chapters.

Brienne - 1 chapter.

Melisandre - 2 chapters.

Jon - 0 chapters.

[Faint]

Jaime- 7 chapters

Jaime - 7 chapters

I think that's a bit ambitious for what is a relatively unimportant character in the grand scheme of things. He's also with Brienne, another POV. I'm thinking in the 3 to 4 chapter range, at best.

[Arkash]

I dont think we'll get to see Brienne PoV, she knows too much, at least for a while.

For Jaime, my guess is that either he dies at the beginning, hence, no more than 2 chapters, either he got a full story arc, and then, yeah, 6/7 chapters sound resonable.

[protar]

I think that's a bit ambitious for what is a relatively unimportant character in the grand scheme of things. He's also with Brienne, another POV. I'm thinking in the 3 to 4 chapter range, at best.

Jaime is very important. He's not on the same level as the big trio, or the other Stark kids, but he's just below them surely. And I have a feeling he's going to become quite important in TWOW. And aside from his one off in Dance (which really should have gone in Feast.) hasn't he had 7 POV's for both Feast and Storm? So not really very ambitious.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree that Jaime's chapter count depends on his arc, but I don't think Martin would leave him hanging in the last book only to kill him off in his first or second chapter. So yeah, I agree with Protar, et al. and say he'll have 7 ... maybe 5-7.

Jon's probably the biggest question mark — is he going to have a ton of chapters, only a few (maybe at the end?), or none? If he has none, or none until almost the very end, will Melisandre's POV at the Wall pick up the slack, or will the Wall be on a narrative blackout?

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

[W]ill the Wall be on a narrative blackout?

He might go in that direction, actually. As in: We know there are major things going on there, but do not get to see them. All in order up the tension and curiosity. (Am I making myself clear?)