Jory Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You're forgetting Howland Reed, who was also at the Tower of Joy and would of learned whatever Ned learned that day. If there was any sort of proof of Jon's legitimacy there (perhaps a letter written by Rhaegar), Howland Reed might of taken it back to Greywater Watch with him for safekeeping.I, Rhaegar, of the House Targaryen, do this day declare that Jon Snow, that dude who is standing right next to you, who has greyish eyes and black hair and looks nothing like me and I know all of this because the Ghost of High Heart told me, is my legitimate son by way of a second marriage to Lyanna Stark - polygamy was not practiced by my family for centuries, but I'm different, and special. I'm Rhaegar Targaryen, by the way. This letter will somehow prove that Jon Snow is my son, somehow, because I know who Jon Snow is, rather than just a lump in Lyanna's belly. I wrote all of this down, and told no one else about it even as I rode off to the Trident, because I'm really smart. Howland Reed, the guy most everyone outside of the North believes to be a frog-eating loser, can vouch for me on this, even though he and Ned were loyal to Robert and would have had no reason to preserve a document [this document] that would not only undermine Robert's rule but would put poor Jon Snow (MY LEGITIMATE SON!!!!!)'s life in danger were it to be found.With all my love and warmest regards,Rhaegar Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Well, Aegon, if he's real is still older than Jon Snow, so in terms of succession he comes first, even if Jon is legitimized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Would that letter be believed/acceptef?, I seem to recall Cersei tearing up Robert's will, and with all the time that's passed even a signed sealed letter would be met with heavy skepticism.I think a letter might exist, maybe not legitimizing Jon, but confirming Rhaegar got married to Lyanna. And I don't think a letter would be the main proof to his being Rhaegar's heir; I think this letter or whatever will only show up after Jon has done something pretty amazing that would make everyone wonder if he's the blood of the dragon. Survive the flames and be reborn as AA with a real flaming sword, waking the ice dragon or I don't know what else could be under the Wall or Winterfell, getting one of Daenerys's dragons for himself... all of this sound incredibly silly, but I trust if Martin were to put any such situations in his books, it would sound more interesting than the way I describe it.Well, Aegon, if he's real is still older than Jon Snow, so in terms of succession he comes first, even if Jon is legitimized.Yeah, but he's probably not real, and since he seems to like making rushed decisions, I doubt he'll survive long enough for that anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunset King Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Jon would probably make a more effective ruler than Daenerys overall. However, if the choice is between the realm forsaking its past allegiances and ongoing conflicts to support a superhuman Jon or Daenerys sweeping in dragons and forces from Essos, the latter would be more interesting to see unfold. In both cases the outcome would essentially have already been strongly suspected in advance but at least with Daenerys she would have to face real opposition for the throne. The disconnect from the war that would exist between Jon taking the throne through being AA or R + L is one reason to suspect that, though R + L is true, he will not actively seek to prove himself or desire royal power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 That is an interesting aspect to this story, there are so many who lust for the Iron Throne, but not Jon. In the end Jon will probably be forced to take the throne. I see Danaerys as dethroning Stannis, then Aegon, in the end forcing her nephew, Jon, to take it. There are some visions that both Danaerys and Jon have had that I still don't fully understand. The one thing that is most on mind is the great stone beast that breathes shadow flame. Both Danaerys and Jon have had prescient dreams of battles in which the foe is yet to be revealed. They could be battling each other, or they could be united against a common foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 All this, of course, assumes that Jon really is Rhaegars son. That is still far from certain. As was pointed out, acceptable proof to the nobility that count of him being Rhaegars son would be almost impossible to come by.There is also the small matter of Jon being the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, a position which is for life. In his mind, at least, that vow would take precedence over being King of the Realm. Plus...even if he did somehow survive getting stabbed multiple times, there is no certainty he would also survive the next series of battles along the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I kind of have a crackpot theory, that something will happen to Shireen and Stannis will name Jon his heir, to make definitive peace with the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 All this, of course, assumes that Jon really is Rhaegars son. That is still far from certain. As was pointed out, acceptable proof to the nobility that count of him being Rhaegars son would be almost impossible to come by.There is also the small matter of Jon being the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, a position which is for life. In his mind, at least, that vow would take precedence over being King of the Realm. Plus...even if he did somehow survive getting stabbed multiple times, there is no certainty he would also survive the next series of battles along the wall.This is why I believe that if — IF — Jon takes the throne, it will be because he did something to earn it (namely, save the realm). It will be his parentage that helps him "fulfill" whatever prophecy he'd end up fulfilling, but it won't necessarily be what makes him qualified to be king, if that makes sense. I think he's legitimate and I think he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. But that fact won't in and of itself be what motivates people to back him.Does anyone else think it's kind of interesting or fortuitous that Maester Aemon compares Jon's ascent to being Lord Commander to Aegon V becoming king? "It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg." Both of them have this conversation never knowing that Aegon V is Jon's great-great-grandfather. Aegon V was also put on the throne more or less unexpectedly; he grew up never expecting and probably never really wanting to rule. What if that parallelism between Jon and Aegon V will eventually carry through to Jon's own — unexpected and unwanted — coronation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It makes sense to me. There will many who desire the throne, but Danaerys who cannot win support will prove each candidate inadequate. The Iron Throne will sit vacant, until there is an upwelling of support for forcing Jon take it. Then GRRM will make the big reveal that it was his by birthrigth, all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It makes sense to me. There will many who desire the throne, but Danaerys who cannot win support will prove each candidate inadequate. The Iron Throne will sit vacant, until there is an upwelling of support for forcing Jon take it. Then GRRM will make the big reveal that it was his by birthrigth, all along.I think that also fits well within the "bittersweet" ending this is supposed to have. I don't think Jon would want to be king even if he knew that legally he should be. Whereas for most people, sitting on the throne would be a pinnacle of achievement, Jon would think of it as imprisonment, even though he'd do it if called upon. That's the irony — everyone wants it, except the guy who will probably end up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think that also fits well within the "bittersweet" ending this is supposed to have. I don't think Jon would want to be king even if he knew that legally he should be. Whereas for most people, sitting on the throne would be a pinnacle of achievement, Jon would think of it as imprisonment, even though he'd do it if called upon. That's the irony — everyone wants it, except the guy who will probably end up on it.Hm. Are you sure it's Jon you're describing? :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hm. Are you sure it's Jon you're describing? :cool4:Jon or possibly Stannis. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladywhiskers Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 All this, of course, assumes that Jon really is Rhaegars son. That is still far from certain. As was pointed out, acceptable proof to the nobility that count of him being Rhaegars son would be almost impossible to come by.There is also the small matter of Jon being the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, a position which is for life. In his mind, at least, that vow would take precedence over being King of the Realm. Plus...even if he did somehow survive getting stabbed multiple times, there is no certainty he would also survive the next series of battles along the wall.Let us suppose that Jon does inherit somehow, but refuses to leave the wall and break his vows. Would that mean that the throne would pass to the Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Let us suppose that Jon does inherit somehow, but refuses to leave the wall and break his vows. Would that mean that the throne would pass to the Starks?Unless any of the Stark is Jon's secret child, no. He inherits it from his Targ blood, not Stark. On the other hand, Robb named him his heir; the King of the North position would, indeed, pass to the other Starks, in this order: Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Well, the actual official King in the North is Ramsay... Haha, just had a thought of Ramsay on the Iron Throne ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 A new Aerys, that would be fun lolUh, imagine Ramsay dealing with Daenerys and YG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Imagine Ramsay facing Jaime Lannister, or Gregor Clegane, or Sandor Clegane, or Jorah Mormont, or Loras Tyrell, or Brienne of Tarth, or Garlan Tyrell, or Nymeria Sand, or Balon Swann in a traditional sword fight !!! Mouahahahahaha !! Need to see this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunset King Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ramsay + Cersei ruling together with Qyburn or Roose as Hand. That would be one of the worst possible ways of governing the realm; one would hope that the throne would disgorge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Unless any of the Stark is Jon's secret child, no. He inherits it from his Targ blood, not Stark. On the other hand, Robb named him his heir; the King of the North position would, indeed, pass to the other Starks, in this order: Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya.I would argue it doesn't matter what Robb named him - this is why everyone obsessing over Robb's will always makes me laugh. Robb wrote the letter not knowing that Bran, Arya and Rickon were still alive. Jon, even if legitimized, comes before legitimate Stark children, and if Rickon arrives leading an army of unicorns with Shaggydog right beside him, Galbart Glover is not going to say "Here you go, Jon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Jon or possibly Stannis. Why?I was being smarmy and talkin' about the Stan-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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