The Blackfish

[Cheese Pudding]

We'll see him at the prologue. It is known.

Like some said, he's probably gone to Casterly Rock to rescue Edmure.

1% os chance of him finding Catelyn or Sansa.

[TheKindlyMan]

Family. Duty. Honor.

As I see it, the Tully words leave the BF with three choices:

1. Rescue Edmure or ensure the safety of his child
   
2. Pretty much along the lines of Damien's theory (but I also find it unlikely that Jeyne Poole is pregnant...somebody in that family definitely betrayed Robb to the Lannisters, and kept Jeyne from getting pregnant)
   
3. Revenge against the Freys and Boltons, in the form of either, the Hooded Man or plotting something more complex with Howland Reed (who Robb had sent two of his commanders to before the Red Wedding)
   

I find 3 the most plausible because it allows for the most bad assery from the characters involved.

[arya_underfoot]

There's lots of speculation that Blackfish will join forces with Reed and come up with some uber-kickass plot that will smite all that is evil. I have a few issues with this. Why would these two in particular unite? There's no historical reason- they're not oldtime friends or anything like that. They have different goals- Blackfish needs to rescue his lord (+/- queen), raise an army, fight the frey/lannister forces, regain lost territories etc etc. Reed meanwhile has some secret agenda we're kept in the dark about (possibly to do with the cotf and the return of the others), but we have no reason to believe it has anything to do with the Riverlands and Blackfish.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Where and what the Blackfish is doing depends on if he knows about Robb's decree (if Jon was indeed named, and i know Blackfish wasn't there but Robb probably discussed it with him). If he knows i think he's probably the hooded man, if he doesn;t he is going back to the vale or sticking around the riverlands

[Gogossos]

Blackfish + Reed + Stannis + The Wall = Jon's rescue.

[Arthanis]

Robbs wife description given by Catelyn (before Red wedding) is COMPLETELY different then Robbs wife description given by Jaimie Lannister (after kapturing Tully's keep)

conclusion:

girl was REPLACED.

What we know?

Robb made document making Jon his sucessor as King of the North - document is missing

Balckfish is missing

Robbs wife is missing

They all are probably travelling to meet Jon. It's not surprising their travel is problematic, since they must pass lands controlled by Lannisters, Freys and Boltons.

[arya_underfoot]

Robbs wife description given by Catelyn (before Red wedding) is COMPLETELY different then Robbs wife description given by Jaimie Lannister (after kapturing Tully's keep)

conclusion:

girl was REPLACED.

As it has been stated several times elsewhere, those are two completely different pov's at different times. both catelyn and jaime are seeing what they want to see. for catelyn, jeyne is her son's wife and she wants to see her being capable of producing grandsons and hence heirs for robb. jaime compares her to cersei, which is entirely i would expect him to do. this is hardly proof that the girl was replaced.

[Arthanis]

As it has been stated several times elsewhere, those are two completely different pov's at different times. both catelyn and jaime are seeing what they want to see. for catelyn, jeyne is her son's wife and she wants to see her being capable of producing grandsons and hence heirs for robb. jaime compares her to cersei, which is entirely i would expect him to do. this is hardly proof that the girl was replaced.

There are some huge differencences in physical description. Catelyn describe "her son's wife" as someone with unusually large loins, while Jaimie see has as someone very skinny and thin. Of course, it is "different PoV and time", but loins size is definied by bone construction, is could not become thinner by aging, illness, or anything else (excluding magic). On top of that Martin is practicing Chekov's gun rule, whiel we have:

- document written by Robb which disappeared (if document is not going to be revealed, then entire plot is useless)

- Blackfish escaping for mysterious reason

- completely different descriptions of the "same" girl given by Martin for no reason

[Lady Octarina]

There are some huge differencences in physical description. Catelyn describe "her son's wife" as someone with unusually large loins, while Jaimie see has as someone very skinny and thin. Of course, it is "different PoV and time", but loins size is definied by bone construction, is could not become thinner by aging, illness, or anything else (excluding magic). On top of that Martin is practicing Chekov's gun rule, whiel we have:

- document written by Robb which disappeared (if document is not going to be revealed, then entire plot is useless)

- Blackfish escaping for mysterious reason

- completely different descriptions of the "same" girl given by Martin for no reason

I vaguely remember, on the subject of this discussion, someone mentioning a SSM that established the difference in description was a mistake by Martin that wasn't corrected when they edited the book.

[Arthanis]

"writers mistake"? Writer pedantically fixing each detail of his book, making such important mistake in multiple-times repeated person description? I don't buy it.

Are there any other "confirmed" Martin's "not corrected" mistakes?

[longish claw]

There are some huge differencences in physical description. Catelyn describe "her son's wife" as someone with unusually large loins, while Jaimie see has as someone very skinny and thin. Of course, it is "different PoV and time", but loins size is definied by bone construction, is could not become thinner by aging, illness, or anything else (excluding magic). On top of that Martin is practicing Chekov's gun rule, whiel we have:

- document written by Robb which disappeared (if document is not going to be revealed, then entire plot is useless)

- Blackfish escaping for mysterious reason

- completely different descriptions of the "same" girl given by Martin for no reason

point taken howevr there are other potnetial reasons for these story lines proving relevent

rob's will is potentially stil relevent to uncat and the mormonts who were confirmed there at the time of the will signing.

jamie's different discription could just be there to show he's stil thinkin of cersei and adding to the difficulty of his decision of not returning to her upon recieving her letter and adding to the triangle with brienne

as for the blackfish this thread show's plenty of other reasons for this disappearance.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I vaguely remember, on the subject of this discussion, someone mentioning a SSM that established the difference in description was a mistake by Martin that wasn't corrected when they edited the book.

If so, then that’s a really super-important piece of information. Could you please try to fish out the exact citation for us?

[Independent George]

"writers mistake"? Writer pedantically fixing each detail of his book, making such important mistake in multiple-times repeated person description? I don't buy it.

Are there any other "confirmed" Martin's "not corrected" mistakes?

Like Sansa remembering being kissed by the Hound? I'm not denying the possibility of a Jeyne switcheroo, but all things considered, this just feels more like a mistake than a clue to me.

[Lord Damian]

If it were a mistake regarding Jeyne's hip description, why would the blackfish tell Jaime that the last command given to him is the one I am bound to. "protect my queen"? This was months after the red wedding. The Blackfish could have said, go F yourself, I will not surrender my forefathers' castle to a backstabbing kingslayer or Kingslayer, go F a Frey. There are several things he could have said. He said my king told me to protect his Queen and that is what he will do. We also have Jaime telling the escorts with the Westerlings that if the girl he thinks is Jeyne were ever to have a baby (from Robb), that the child would be far more dangerous than his father, Robb, the Young Wolf. No, there is too much there to be a mistake or a misdirection. The Blackfish's #1 priority is Jeyne, the Queen.

[Lady Octarina]

Okay, there's no SSM (or at least I couldn't find it - but I didn't really look for it), but there is this post:

I attended the reading where GRRM stated that it was a mistake with the two descriptions. He stated that some inconsistencies are on purpose and other mistakes. There should be a SSM from August with these quotes, It is the same event when he confirmed Jon Connington was gay. There were no spoilers allowed in the questioning so the questions and answers were vague as to not give too much away.

But while we were having our books signed we were able to ask a question. Mine was the mistake an error on his part on Jaime and Cat. He stated that he mistake was his. If you look at my post history there should be a link somewhere of me stating this back when it happened.

It's from this thread, where the possibility of Robb having impregnated his wife is throughly analyzed with good logical arguments by both sides; I'd suggest anyone interested in Jeyne's hips have a look at it.

[Ser Maxwell]

I reckon he's either headed to Greywater Watch (he knows people won't go roaming into there too hastily)

OR

He will come across Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen (looking for Sansa, now in Littlefinger's service) having abducted his niece and will slay the Mad Mouse, rescuing her.

Wishful thinking both ways however :)

[QuaitheTheShadow]

I believe, and I'm not the only one, he escaped with Jeyne Westerling and Robb's heir, although I have no idea where he could have gone.

I believe this too. If he really is with the real Jeyne, they could have gone to the cragonmenn at Greywater Watch since they're still friendly to Robb's cause.

I'd think Tom-of-Seven-Strings and the rest of the BwB will slowly and covertly take out the Freys in Riverunn as Mance did with Bolton's men in Winterfell.

[romantic]

Maybe he washed up on the Quiet Isle (proposed in another thread - can't remember which). The Quiet Isle also looks after pregnant woman, so if Jeyne Westerling is with him, she could find safety there. Possibly other soldiers have been washed up too - good protection for a Stark baby.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

We haven't been to Casterly Rock yet in the novels either.....so this would be an excellent time to get a few chapters in a new location. Especially if Edmure is rescued. I can see The Blackfish dying in the attempt though which is kinda sad.

[Tharvot]

I'm subscribing to the Blackfish heading to 1 of 3 locals:

1. The Vale - its where he was before, plus the Elder Brother often remarked that the Quiet Isle is where many "treasures" from the war wash up. This direction would hint at him somehow meeting up with Sansa and LF, and possibly even Sandor (assuming he is alive, which I also subscribe to). I think BF is clever enough to not be bought off by LF and he has enough support to raise troops in the Vale. I firmly believe that if Sandor is alive, his destiny is to protect/rescue Sansa from some impending doom...and probably die in the process. It makes sense that their storylines could converge heading towards the Vale...they may even meet up with Brienne and Jamie, who both may be looking for Sansa as well, thereby providing POVs. Also, as is mentioned by romantic, QI is a haven for pregnant women. If BF is with a preggo Jeyne, QI could be a destination for her to give birth...which would lead BF to Sandor, who probably knows that Brienne is seeking Sansa...which could lead them to the Vale.

2. Greywater Watch - He may know Robb's post-death intentions and is seeking out Howland Reed (with or without a pregnant Jeyne). Robb already sent some bannermen that way in a previous book with his wishes for Jon. If Jeyne is pregnant, those plans could have changed and BF is headed to inform everyone before word spreads to Jon. The only issue I have with this is that there are currently no POVs in that area, so a completely new POV would have to be created to give the storyline. I doubt GRRM wants to install another POV for this purpose, though I am sure Howland Reed will have a part to play soon.

3. He is meeting Jeyne in a secret local and they are on their way to some northern destination to keep her safe. This direction could lead them to the QI, it could lead them to Jamie and Brienne, or they could pop up in the north somewhere (less likely since the north seems to be covered in snow and the Boltons are dug in there). Finally, they may run into the BWB and UnCat on their journies (this could work with or without Jeyne). I like the idea of Queen Jeyne escaping (pregnant or not) and remaining loyal to the north, but there are only so many POV characters for them to reach w/o GRRM breaking down and making the Blackfish one of the TWoW POV characters.

I really do not think that he is heading to the Twins.