Rinso Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 On the other hand, though, Stannis is the only king who actually tries to cooperate with the NW where the big elephant in the room is concerned. A horde of zombies led by ice demons are about to invade the world; would allegiances and oaths really matter when it happens? Those are just abstract concepts and what they need are actual men and women to fight.Bowen March is right to consider Jon an oathbreaker, I agree, but at this points the oaths mean little and less. The wildlings have to be saved because any dead wildling means one more wight to fight. Stannis has to be helped because he's the only one who cares about what happens to the Wall. I'd love to see what the Old Pomegranate will do when the Others come knocking at his door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewks44 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Imagine you studied the history of the night's watch, read about the night's watch and you knowledge of the night's watch is just as good, if not better, then someone who has read all 5 books twice, but you've never established a connection with Jon's character, and don't even know about Jon's character. Now imagine you learn after Mormont dies, the new lord commander allows wildlings to pass through the wall and join the watch, and tries to rally the watch to attack a powerful lord in the seven kingdoms, and in doing so, essentially forms a military alliance with a claimant to the iron throne. You would probably be pretty shocked. I think we as readers have a dislike for Bowen Marsh due to our connections with Jon, which is understandable because we spend so much time reading from his POV, but all things considered, he does make many questionable decisions as Lord Commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinso Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Personally, I don't even like Jon. That doesn't mean that his decisions were wrong. Ignorance is not an excuse, just because a general public may not know the reasons behind those decisions, that doesn't make the reasons any less valid. And Bowen Marsh certainly knows about the Others, so no excuse.For what is worth, I don't think that Marsh is a bad guy. Just a stupid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I might be missing a few things when I read ADWD, so can anyone confirm if Bowen Marsh is actually a good or a bad guy?I personally don't see him as a bad guy. He did what he thought was best for the Watch, he probably believed his deed would save the Realm in a way. Since we've been reading about Jon these last five books, sympathized with him and so on, makes Bowen the bad guy because he's the one who opposed him. I see Marsh more predujiced than 'bad'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Omkar Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I think he's just too adamant to believe that the wildlings can be good people. He's definitely NOT evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 He's not a good guy. He's not evil either. He's just a bureaucrat having to deal with matters beyond his understanding.If Westerosi history remembers him at all (assuming there are humans alive after this upcoming Long Night) he'll certainly be remembered as a villainous figure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't think he's a bad guy and I can certainly agree with many of his thoughts and opinions in regard to food stores and extra mouths to feed, so in that sense he is a capable Steward. Also the fact that he is willing to question Jon is something that even Jon appreciates.However I do think he is a close minded bigot when it comes to the Wildlings. Even when Jon explains it to him in plain terms that every Wlilding that dies north of the wall is another zombie soldier for the real enemy he still is too ignorant to understand.There is a reason why he was never particularly high in Jeor Mormonts council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 He doesn't seem that good or evil, really, just a bit naive. Because yes, Bowen, the Watch can totally be picky when it comes to recruits when zombie-demons are killing your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Stripper Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Like everyone else is saying, yeah I think Marsh is "grey". That won't stop me from hating him though. IMO Jon is the best thing that has happened to the watch in a very long time. He made peace between the wildlings and the NW but he also made a little mess with the whole "bring in every wildling" thing. sure they need swords but they can't afford all the mouths to feed and the one thing Jon did wrong for the Watch was not take into account if it was worth sending Cotter Pyke to Hardhome. So getting back to topic, when Bowen stabbed the good guy 'For the Watch' my first reaction was 'Fuck that guy!'.And for that I say Bowen deserves to die like the prejudice, blind, idiot scum he is. My answer: He isn't bad but he definitely isn't good. So Fuck you Marsh, Fuck you 'For the Watch'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Nope! Not in the least! UH UH! No way! Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Attacking Satin is especially ridiculous because the poor kid was RAISED to it. He had no choice and he likely hated it, which is why he ended up on the Wall. Probably a bunch of creepy old ArchMaesters going to see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Short answer:No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 He's not good, but he's not evil. He thought what he was doing was for the good of the Night's Watch but he's also bigoted and can not see past his disdain and fear of the wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Bowen Marsh is not a good guy. He may not be an outright villain, he's not cruel or evil intention, but he is stupid and he is much too stubborn for how stupid he is. It is one thing to doubt Jon's ideas at first, after all, letting wildlings through the wall is a major decision, but he should have been able to come around to why such a move would make sense. especially with the restrictions Jon has placed on the wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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