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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP201 Discussion

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The Littlefinger-Cersei scene....

My immediate reaction was that Petyr is not as stupid as that to leave himself open and vulnerable, yet after thinking back on it, I like the idea of portraying him as a man who makes mistakes just like any other man, albeit far less. I will be honest, I cannot see Petyr slipping up at all in the books, but I am sure it is bound to happen before the last book, lol. Ultimately, I do not mind the scene as much as I thought I would.

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Craster did not look at all like how I pictured him, he seemed too normal or something I'm not sure. Dragonstone and Stannis were both great imo even thought we saw very little of them, really liked the carved table.

Dontos also didn't look like how I pictured him either.

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My criticisms:

I understand the 10 episode limit, but they feel the need to add plotlines (ex: Petyr Baelish)? Why do the writers feel they have to take it upon themselves to change the story?

Where is Catelyn's family? Are they deciding to take out Edmure, Hoster, and Brynden Tully? Is that why Jaime is being dragged everywhere instead of being held at Riverun? I really fear for the 3rd season then...

Is Stannis single? Not as important as Catelyn's family (so far in the books) but still. I was hoping to see the maester wear the jester hat.

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I know they were killed, but I don't recall their murdres in the book. I believe it was "off-screen" but I could be wrong.

I thought they were off screen, too.

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I really wish they would've opened the same way Clash of Kings did -- on Dragonstone with Cressen. I realize the importance of quickly giving the audience a glimpse of familiar faces, but I thought the CoK prologue would've worked really well. Loved seeing Dragonstone in the opening credits, too. I anticipate the opening sequence as much as the show itself, feels like.

Also, Cressen came across as a shady and conniving douche rather than a sympathetic martyr. When he tried to kill Mel on the show, IMO, you almost felt relieved that he failed more than you felt sorry for him. I think more of an effort should've gone into expressing his hopelessness and how everyone turned away from him when he had once been so respected.

Craster looked better groomed than the Night's Watch. He's a WILDLING!

Also, they seemed to have changed that Stannis knew about the incest before Ned. I guess Stan got Ned's letter and it was the first time he heard the news? Don't know how I feel about that. Seems to undermine Stannis.

Also, hated the confrontation between Cersei and Littlefinger. Littlefinger is not so dumb as to brazenly show his cards to Cersei like that.

But, the positives! The CGI looks great! The direwolves really look like direwolves this season.

And Cersei/Tyrion were also great and my favorite parts of the episode.

Heh @ the tradition of ending each season's first episode with some violence against children.

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One thing that I was let down by was the Dontos scene, mainly because of Sophie Turner's acting. I find her acting to be very unbelievable most of the time. And that scene was exceptionally poorly acted, imo.

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Stephen Dillane made me grin with glee during the writing of the declaration. He nailed it, to me. (and it should go without saying that Peter Dinklage continues to be a revelation as Tyrion.)

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I was very happy to see Dolerous Ed. He was great!

Totally agree thatLightbringrr being left on the beach was a Wtf moment.

Also, I agree with Ran that Maester Cressen's death didn't reasonate like it did in the book. It lost emotional impact in the translation.

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I find it weird that it's felt Baelish needs some sort of set up -- like a petty remark getting him beat up by Cersei (figuratively) -- to explain why he might betray the Lannisters. He's already revealed a propensity for betraying people if he believes he can profit by it in the long term. He never tied himself to the Lannisters.

I really do think it's out of character even for the TV character -- it's a good point that his speech in the brothel scene in Ep 1 kind of required him not to do exactly what he did there -- and the fact that he's a 40-something year old with 15+ years of time at court under his belt, it's weird to imagine that he has so little tolerance of more powerful people picking on him.

Eh. Didn't like the scene, anyways. Even just from a dialog angle -- it was flat for me, too obvious.

Though LF has shown a habit of having these sort of one-upmanship with Varys on more than one occasion. He's quite aware that Varys has as much dirt on him than he has on the Spider. You could argue that it's just in his nature and he was trying to test Cersei since she's new to real power. Yeah...I probably don't buy all that either.

Speaking of Cersei, I agree Lena Heady seems to be growing into the role. Her scene with Tyrion was very good and she showed the smaller expressions probably lacking in season 1.

Peter Dinklage as usual gets the best lines, "You love your children. It's your one your one redeeming quality. That and your cheekbones" lol

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My criticisms:

I understand the 10 episode limit, but they feel the need to add plotlines (ex: Petyr Baelish)? Why do the writers feel they have to take it upon themselves to change the story?

THIS.

This is always the biggest problem I have with film adaptations, and I'll never, ever understand it. The source material is right there in black & white. Why be so arrogant or presumptious as to assume you can write something better, or that something needs to be changed, or "improved upon"?

Screenwriters adding elements that have nothing to do with nothing, while ignoring other elements that fans of the books want to see, is maddening. Oh, and, um, Messers Benioff and Weiss?

Did we really need another pointless Whore Tryout Day?

That scene was painful and pathetic. I actually face-palmed during it.

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I thought the Cressen poisoning was poorly done. He started foaming at the mouth before she even drank, and he just drank without even bothering offering it to her first. It's like, errr... what? Well, Mel is certainly creepy as hell.

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I find it weird that it's felt Baelish needs some sort of set up -- like a petty remark getting him beat up by Cersei (figuratively) -- to explain why he might betray the Lannisters. He's already revealed a propensity for betraying people if he believes he can profit by it in the long term. He never tied himself to the Lannisters.

I really do think it's out of character even for the TV character -- it's a good point that his speech in the brothel scene in Ep 1 kind of required him not to do exactly what he did there -- and the fact that he's a 40-something year old with 15+ years of time at court under his belt, it's weird to imagine that he has so little tolerance of more powerful people picking on him.

Eh. Didn't like the scene, anyways. Even just from a dialog angle -- it was flat for me, too obvious.

I agree. Littlefinger would never have done that- it was completely out of character.

Other than that, I thought that the episode was great. I was surprised that Craster was in episode one, but I thought that the scene was well done.

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I was very happy to see Dolerous Ed. He was great!

Totally agree thatLightbringrr being left on the beach was a Wtf moment.

Also, I agree with Ran that Maester Cressen's death didn't reasonate like it did in the book. It lost emotional impact in the translation.

I don't think it resonated emotionally cause that wasn't what the directors were going for. Rather than make us feel for a character that dies in the first scene, they use it to give us an idea of just how powerful and scary Melisandre is. I liked it better that way, myself

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Last year the first episode was the epilogue this year they went straight to Tyrion marching into the city . . what??? I understand folks are Peter D. happy but they could have done what they did last year. Have Stannis getting the letter from Lord Eddard, also Maester Cressen was strangled his air was cut off, he didn't bleed out like a stuck pig . . .

The guy playing Davos is right on the money . . .

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Screenwriters adding elements that have nothing to do with nothing, while ignoring other elements that fans of the books want to see, is maddening. Oh, and, um, Messers Benioff and Weiss?

Did we really need another pointless Whore Tryout Day?

That scene was painful and pathetic. I actually face-palmed during it.

Lol. Totally agree, and with Roz almost repeating LF's comments from the first tryout day verbatim. The scene lost some of the impact of Barra being murdered.

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One thing that I was let down by was the Dontos scene, mainly because of Sophie Turner's acting. I find her acting to be very unbelievable most of the time. And that scene was exceptionally poorly acted, imo.

Different strokes, I guess. I thought that scene came across great. Sansa is the caged bird singing the song. She says all the right things, the bare minimum and no more - see her parrot back the "Well struck" at Joffrey, unwilling to venture any more than that. If her voice sounds lifeless it's probably because she's being forced to watch a gruesome spectacle while sitting betrothed to the little shit who had her father's head lopped off.

Yet for that she can still cleverly seize a moment, as she does with Ser Dontos, appealing to Joffrey's cruelty in order to save the life of Dontos, even if it is a life that will now be lived as a fool.

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For me, it's not a question of fidelity. I absolutely loved all the non-Ros additions to season 1 (the Robert/Cersei scene in particular was one of my favorites). The reason I disliked the Cersei/Littlefinger scene is that it's completely out of character for Littlefinger. He had that big speech in S1 talking about how 'fighting them was their game', and demonstrated that he was very well aware of his strengths and limitations. There is no advantage to giving away his game like that, and quite a big disadvantage. Littlefinger isn't stupid, and that was an amateur move.

Well, I didn't love that scene but I thought it was an interesting addition. It wasn't about Littlefinger, but Cersei. I mean, it seems to me that shows how ruthless Cersei can be, and impulsive (foolish, actually), something we only see much farther in the books. I also find it wonderful that they included that scene, plus her interaction with Joffrey on the same episode; like a non-acknowledged competition of senseless tyrants, which also shows just how much of her he has. Funny, it also takes him much longer in the books for him to actually defy her to her face (does that happen at all, actually?), but I guess it makes sense, considering they aged the character.

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In regards to the clips for what's coming this season that was showed at the end of the episode, was that Renly and Margeary in the scene with a woman talking about her husband being king, and then the two of them kissing? If so, I'm curious how that'll be handled. It could just be a scene to emphasize Renly's homosexuality by him rejecting Margeary before sex, but I always assumed from the books that she knew about Renly's orientation.

But if he actually manages to play along with it somehow as his duty, then that'll have some pretty far reaching effects for Margeary's story in the later books, and her claim of being a virgin. The show might wind up giving us a definitive answer about that before the books even do.

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