[Book Spoilers] Pre-airing Discussion

[CrypticWeirwood]

I love the dagmer/ramsey speculation. It'd be such a huge rewrite.

Yep, but all for the better. As far as I’m concerned, the more they change/rewrite, the better I like it. After all, I’ve already read the books. I want to be surprised. That means they have to change things to make me optimally pleased with the show. Plus they have a chance to fix the things that Martin screwed up this way.

[iheartseverus]

I don't know what's wrong with me, usually I don't want to be spoiled at all.

I actually enjoy being 'spoiled.' Its sort of like, if I'm going to take a trip to England (I live in the U.S.) I want to first read up on the Tower of London and get some history about Becket being murdered in Canterbury Cathedral--and what's Stonehenge about, etc etc etc. I want to see pictures of all of it, talk to folks who've been there, just immerse myself in the whole atmosphere, before even getting on the plane to go there.

[Crown]

Yep, but all for the better. As far as I’m concerned, the more they change/rewrite, the better I like it. After all, I’ve already read the books. I want to be surprised. That means they have to change things to make me optimally pleased with the show. Plus they have a chance to fix the things that Martin screwed up this way.

Such as?

[House Snow]

Such as?

Well I like that they have fleshed out characters more. I wasn't a big fan of the characters that were pure bad guys like Visery, early Theon, Cersei. In fact I kind of wish they were showing something redeeming/ not crazy about Joffrey.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Such as?

Oh gosh, a million things!

Consider just the little bit at Baelor of Ned tipping off Yoren to nab Arya; Martin has said he wishes he’d thought of that.

Or ageing up the characters. Martin has also said that he wishes he’d done that himself all along.

They also intentionally took out a couple of the things that Martin has said had made people hate Catelyn and Sansa over the years, so that that same hate didn’t happen in the show.

[victim]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Theon can have some sort of Season 3 arc, perhaps to the same extent that Jaime has had so far in Season 2 -- i.e. not much to start, a scene here and there, with a few mentions from notable characters and so on before a mini-arc of torture and attempted escape at some point towards the end of the season. The thing is, I think if they really thought Ramsay would show up in season 3 they'd have placed the Reek storyline in Season 2 untouched. Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall the reason for not casting the Reeds and Ramsay had something to do with the fact that they would have nothing to do over the next seasons, a Theon arc in Season 3 would give the actor who plays Ramsay just as much screentime as Alfie Allen.

No Theon for a few seasons might be for the best either way. I remember the first time I read ADwD and I said to myself, "Who is this charming Reek fellow, I thought he died, and why is he eating a rat?" Which followed with an eventual "Oh fuck, Theon?" It was a great moment in the books because it had been such a long time without him.

Edit: If Ramsay (or a featured extra playing him) appears in this season, I would bank on him never leaving Winterfell. Occupying it from the get-go would save them from having to recreate a Winterfell set further down the line.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Edit: If Ramsay (or a featured extra playing him) appears in this season, I would bank on him never leaving Winterfell. Occupying it from the get-go would save them from having to recreate a Winterfell set further down the line.

Oh, you mean keep Ramsey and Theon in Winterfell all the time?

I wonder how that would that work with the sack/burning, and with Bran﹠Rick climbing on up out of the crypt to find the moribund Luwin in the godswood.

[towerofjoy]

I don't think the rest of the seasons can even be thought of as book by book. GOT was the only one they could do this on since it was first. While books can skip characters, tv can't. There's no way Theon's is going to disappear for 2 seasons just like Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei aren't going to disappear later on.

GRRM wrote his books JRRT style. And I think that makes for a better reading experience. But tv is really different - you can't do things that make viewers to scratch their heads and go back and view previous episodes. They'll just move on to the next thing instead.

But it's going to get exponentially harder for HBO to produce each subsequent season. There are only so many plot lines/character arcs that viewers can follow. I think they are going to have make some really tough consolidation choices that will make book purists insane. But these changes do keep me watching - I'm almost as curious what detail or timing nuance is going to change as I am looking for the book scenes come to life.

Just my 2-cents, sorry for being a bit off topic!

[protar]

Oh gosh, a million things! Consider just the little bit at Baelor of Ned tipping off Yoren to nab Arya; Martin has said he wishes he’d thought of that. Or ageing up the characters. Martin has also said that he wishes he’d done that himself all along. They also intentionally took out a couple of the things that Martin has said had made people hate Catelyn and Sansa over the years, so that that same hate didn’t happen in the show.

That's three things.

[jlk7e]

Of course TV characters can disappear for a season and then come back later. That happens all the time in television shows. The problem is when you have an actor you know you need to have come back in a particular season. That can be tricky - what if the actor gets other work in the meanwhile?

[Crown]

Well I like that they have fleshed out characters more. I wasn't a big fan of the characters that were pure bad guys like Visery, early Theon, Cersei. In fact I kind of wish they were showing something redeeming/ not crazy about Joffrey.

Oh gosh, a million things! Consider just the little bit at Baelor of Ned tipping off Yoren to nab Arya; Martin has said he wishes he’d thought of that. Or ageing up the characters. Martin has also said that he wishes he’d done that himself all along. They also intentionally took out a couple of the things that Martin has said had made people hate Catelyn and Sansa over the years, so that that same hate didn’t happen in the show.

Fair enough.

[CrypticWeirwood]

That's three things.

Bah! You aren’t going to be convinced if you think the books are Golden Tablets of Perfection handed down from the Lord God Almighty, and that every deviation from that Holy Scripture is a blasphemy deserving of being burnt at the stake — slowly.

There are too many too list. Here’s just one more, and I’ll be done with you: Theon’s letter that he burned up. It was a beautifully executed thing.

There are many, many, many more lovelinesses like that, ones anybody who doesn’t autohate blasphemy will quickly think of.

[Warden of the North121]

Bah! You aren’t going to be convinced if you think the books are Golden Tablets of Perfection handed down from the Lord God Almighty, and that every deviation from that Holy Scripture is a blasphemy deserving of being burnt at the stake — slowly.

There are too many too list. Here’s just one more, and I’ll be done with you: Theon’s letter that he burned up. It was a beautifully executed thing.

There are many, many, many more lovelinesses like that, ones anybody who doesn’t autohate blasphemy will quickly think of.

Add that bit between Cersei and Tyrion in the last episode to the list. It really portrays their relationship well. They're family and should be there for each other but Tyrion just can't bring himself to comfort someone that hates his guts.

[iheartseverus]

Add that bit between Cersei and Tyrion in the last episode to the list. It really portrays their relationship well. They're family and should be there for each other but Tyrion just can't bring himself to comfort someone that hates his guts.

Plus all the wonderful golden droplets of wit and snark generously sprinkled throughout:

Jaime: Ned's bastard, what's his name again?

Cat: Brienne..

Jaime: No, that's not it...

:P

[King Tommen]

Add that bit between Cersei and Tyrion in the last episode to the list. It really portrays their relationship well. They're family and should be there for each other but Tyrion just can't bring himself to comfort someone that hates his guts.

Appointing Bronn Janos Slynt's replacement as Commander of the City Watch makes an awful lot of sense given Tyrion's strategy of surrounding himself with his own people in King's Landing. I would imagine that Martin would approve of that change.

[Warden of the North121]

Plus all the wonderful golden droplets of wit and snark generously sprinkled throughout: Jaime: Ned's bastard, what's his name again? Cat: Brienne.. Jaime: No, that's not it... :P

That was pure gold. Definitely something Jaime would say ;)

[CrypticWeirwood]

Plus all the wonderful golden droplets of wit and snark generously sprinkled throughout:

• Jaime: Ned's bastard, what's his name again?
  
• Cat: Brienne..
  
• Jaime: No, that's not it...
  

:P

TYRION: You love your children. It's your one redeeming quality. That, and your cheekbones.

[iheartseverus]

TYRION: You love your children. It's your one redeeming quality. That, and your cheekbones.

Bronn: Stay low.

Tyrion: Stay low?

[CrypticWeirwood]

TYRION: You should taste her fish pie.

SHAE: I don’t think Lord Varys likes fish pie.

VARYS: How can you tell?

SHAE: I can always tell.

TYRION: Men like Lord Varys and I can’t let our disadvantages get the best of us. We’ll make a fisherman of him yet.

[CrypticWeirwood]

TYRION: You’ve perfected the art of tearing up paper.