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Patchface12

[Book Spoilers] Talissa/Jeyne

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What I absolutely cannot understand is the Crag name drop. Honestly, there's no point besides pissing off the Book fans. On the HBO interactive map it even says "the Seat of House Westerling, a noble yet impoverished house" or something. What the fuck? Was that just the producers' way of saying "Shout out to the character who should have been on the show! she technically still exists, but we're replacing her anyway!!"? Is it really that hard to just invent a new castle name, or better yet, cut out a few minutes of Robb and Talisa talking about silk and milk of the poppy and riding through the forest?

It's like they know how dumb they're being, and they're proud of it.

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What I absolutely cannot understand is the Crag name drop. Honestly, there's no point besides pissing off the Book fans. On the HBO interactive map it even says "the Seat of House Westerling, a noble yet impoverished house" or something. What the fuck? Was that just the producers' way of saying "Shout out to the character who should have been on the show! she technically still exists, but we're replacing her anyway!!"? Is it really that hard to just invent a new castle name, or better yet, cut out a few minutes of Robb and Talisa talking about silk and milk of the poppy and riding through the forest?

It's like they know how dumb they're being, and they're proud of it.

Yep. In interviews D&D keep saying how much they "love and respect the source material". But you really gotta wonder...

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If Talisa is indeed Jeyne Westerling, I don't think they'll reveal her true identity this season. The question is how is Robb gonna take the fact that she lied to him all the time. At what point will Robb decide he has to marry her? When she gets pregnant, or when she reveals herself as the daughter of a Lannister bannerman? The thing is, would Robb feel obligated to marry a noblewoman he dishonoured to maintain his self-image as an honourable Stark? Would he also feel obligated to do that if Talisa turns out to be just Talisa? A noblewoman from an impoverished house would still be slightly acceptable as his spouse, whereas a foreigner of unsure birth is definitely not. Robb cannot be shown to be as stupid as to risk his kingdom over a nurse.

The fact that Jeyne Westerling hides behind the Talisa coverstory all the time while being a nurse in the enemy camp may be a bit far fetched. But let's not forget that a certain other highborn girl is covering her true identity behind a number of facades while being among the NW recruits and later a servant in the enemy camp. If you grant Arya the right to make up fake identities, why shouldn't Jeyne?

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What I absolutely cannot understand is the Crag name drop. Honestly, there's no point besides pissing off the Book fans. On the HBO interactive map it even says "the Seat of House Westerling, a noble yet impoverished house" or something. What the fuck? Was that just the producers' way of saying "Shout out to the character who should have been on the show! she technically still exists, but we're replacing her anyway!!"? Is it really that hard to just invent a new castle name, or better yet, cut out a few minutes of Robb and Talisa talking about silk and milk of the poppy and riding through the forest? It's like they know how dumb they're being, and they're proud of it.

'A noble, yet impoverished house' is interesting. One way they can make extra money is by spying for their liege lord.

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Talisa is not who she says she is, i'm almost 100% sure of this. I saw an interview with Oona Chaplin, she was with the girl who plays Ygritte. She says she can't reveal much about her character, but she said there is definitley going to be a twist with the Talisa story. I'm assuming it's that she's Jeyne Westerling but who knows

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Talisa is not who she says she is, i'm almost 100% sure of this. I saw an interview with Oona Chaplin, she was with the girl who plays Ygritte. She says she can't reveal much about her character, but she said there is definitley going to be a twist with the Talisa story. I'm assuming it's that she's Jeyne Westerling but who knows

That’s a real BAZINGA! for ya!

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At what point will Robb decide he has to marry her? When she gets pregnant, or when she reveals herself as the daughter of a Lannister bannerman?

Preggers? Jeyne gets preggers?

That would be a very major thing. I can’t imagine what it would mean, not just for the show, but for the books.

Wow.

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the most logical thing from a GRRM world would be give the camp follower some moon tea so the king doesnt have a bastard, not lets marry her

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I think a good indicator that she's jeyne comes in the line "I always thought I was a good liar". I see her still lying about not being Jeyne. Episode 10 will tell the truth.

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I think a good indicator that she's jeyne comes in the line "I always thought I was a good liar". I see her still lying about not being Jeyne. Episode 10 will tell the truth.

Maybe not even the 10th episode, but the next season or even the Red Wedding incident itself. I am also on the "Jeyne Westerling Bandawagon". Her apparent hesitation to follow Robb in the Crag, Roose Bolton's weird stares (that can't be a coincidence) all the secrecy thing of her actor about the role and name. She is definetely up to something. To this point I really hope she indeed is a Westerling and an actual traitor.

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Preggers? Jeyne gets preggers?

That would be a very major thing. I can’t imagine what it would mean, not just for the show, but for the books.

Wow.

Well, there are some hints that she is in fact pregnant, even though that's much later in the books.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org:8080/index.php/Jeyne_Westerling/Theories

But seeing how the writers have introduced other things from the later books early, it would be a possibility to make that more explicit and have it happen earlier. It would give Robb an additional reason to marry the girl and not bring a bastard into this world, as he knows how hard it was on Jon living as a bastard among the Starks.

I don't want to overplay the pregnancy, which is only a theory discussed due to some subtle hints and not really stated outright in the novels. However, they expanded a lot on the Talisa/Jeyne and Robb romance this season, so I don't think the writers would pass up a pregnancy if in fact, GRRM actually meant for Jeyne to be pregnant and wasn't just dropping false hints.

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Not sure if you were trying to be mean or not. But I feel honored to be trolled by GRRM. Hah. I have no clue what he's thinking of it.

No I wasn't trying to be mean. So no worries.

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A random thought: have we seen Greywind's reaction to her yet? I do not remember it.

Greywind was pretty much absent from the story and we do really not have a feeling he is deeply connected to Robb and Rob trusts him (at least he should). In the books, Jeyne was very much afraid of him and did not want to be near him. In the series, she has not even met him (it is strange that Robb does not have him near most of the time, where is he - it is not like Ghost who can walk around the landscape alone).

So, if she meets Greywind and he trusts her, she is who she says to be. If he starts snarling, she is Tywin's spy.

I stick to my theory.

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I always thought Jeyne Westerling was a spy and a saboteur, and smarter than what was shown in the book. I like that both Jeyne and her mother will be shown to be devious game players who destroy Robb in bed instead of in battle. I am one of those believers that Tywin helped orchestrate the whole thing and I am very interested to see how it all plays out. I think of this as less of a change and more as something that we didn't get a view of in the book.

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I still think that there's a chance she's actually Jeyne (whether its Westerling or Lannister-of-Lannisport or whatever) simply because she's talking with a British accent. The show seems to have had a fairly stable convention when it comes to having Westerosi characters speak with British accents and Essosi characters speak with not-British accents.

I don't think she was lying about her brother almost drowning but has she ever explained why she came to Westeros?

I have a minor feeling that they might do this as a big reveal for Robb's Season 2 cliffhanger.

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I still think that there's a chance she's actually Jeyne (whether its Westerling or Lannister-of-Lannisport or whatever) simply because she's talking with a British accent. The show seems to have had a fairly stable convention when it comes to having Westerosi characters speak with British accents and Essosi characters speak with not-British accents. I don't think she was lying about her brother almost drowning but has she ever explained why she came to Westeros? I have a minor feeling that they might do this as a big reveal for Robb's Season 2 cliffhanger.

Agree. Oona's multilingual, so it wouldn't be difficult for her to fake an accent.

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I dont know, if talisa is jeyne in the tv show, that would be a big reveal on WoW or beyond in the book, would GRRM want that?

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Last episode establishes Robb is returning to the camp by the morning, so yeah, he was returning. I think the Crag was mentioned just as a nod to that part of the story in the books. Is Jeyne uncomfortable about Robb talking about taking off Joffrey's head? Sure, because she seems to have a strong opposition to violence. Is she uncomfortable about going to the Crag? Yes, because she realized that Robb was going out of his way to keep her close to him, to spend time with her, and she's nervous about that relationship. Is she nervous when the rider shows up? Yes, because he's interrupting her conversation with that dreamboat, Robb Stark, and she was liking it. She really is what she says she is.

I think there's really no evidence that Talisa is who she claims to be. This is really just more theory, or "reading stuff in" based on nothing essentially. Concerning the Crag, especially, her apparent discomfort does not suggest any kind of nervousness from her "feelings" for Robb, so much as "oh shit, that puts me in a potentially awkward position".

Why?

Unless Oona Chaplin and the directors are really just giving us false hints, there are ample subtleties both in Talisa's portrayal and Chaplin's performance that suggest Something is Not Quite Right here.

(Regarding supposedly non-British accents in Essos, I'll raise you Qarth (The Spice King??) and second it with Illyrio Mopatis.)

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