NBA Playoffs 2012 - Prelude to Punches

[Reposado]

But if any players younger than him lead their teams to a championship (Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose or Kevin Durant), then it's obviously not inexperience that's the problem. And now the Thunder, obviously younger and obviously hungry, are knocking on the door.

what about, that the heat are giving serous minutes to guys that wouldn't see the floor for the thunder. (miller, turiaf, even haslem)

This very well may be LeBron's last chance for awhile because OKC has the look of a dynasty. Miami very well may have to trade Wade because he's already starting to breakdown. They may have a better chance of building a better 12 man roster around LeBron and Bosh.

a year ago i was in favor of this. now i'm not sure what they could get for him.

[Jaime L]

The generational factor is partly what makes this final four so interesting. This should be the Heat's time to shine. Boston is amazingly old - they're the mid 90s core (Garnett drafted in '95, Allen in '96, Pierce in '98). San Antonio is also old: all late 90s-very early 2000s (Duncan in '97, Ginoblii in '99, Parker in '01).

The Heat's core are the middle aged team of the group: all of their big 3 were drafted in the first five picks of 2003. That was considered the best draft in a decade and they're all in what should be in the very heart of their prime. Course they play like they think titles would just be bestowed upon them for joining up.

And Thunder are of course very young: all late 2000s draft picks (Durant in '07, Westbrook in '08, Harden in '09) and with the way they're playing, they don't seem content to wait to reach their primes to win titles. And if they win this year, this could be the beginning of a long reign

I mean what other title contending teams look like they're poised to really get better over the next few years? You have to think the sun is setting on all three of the teams who dominated the Western Conference over the last 15 years: The Lakers, Spurs and Mavericks. Maybe one of those teams steals one more title, but that's about all you can realistically expect. Are the Clippers rising? I'm never convinced with that franchise. And really there's no-one else you can point to as having the makings of a title contending core.

Out east you pretty much only have the Heat and the Bulls. I think the Bulls need one more star piece and unless the Heat pull it together immediately, as in tonight, they could get broken up or reloaded or whatever. That said, with Lebron, you have to think the Heat will be title contenders for years to come. Regardless of how this year turns out, it's easy to imagine the Thunder and the Heat meeting up multiple times in the finals.

The only x-factor I see is where Dwight Howard goes. He's the one guy who could alter the balance of power for the next 5 years, and to a lesser extent Deron Williams...if he goes to the right team.

The only real question is whether they are going to be able to keep such a talented group together with the salary cap. Will Durant and Westbrook want max contracts if they win this championship? Will Harden and Ibaka want money that their talent deserves. Will they be able to keep their talented role players like Perkins/Sefolosha/Collison, or will salary constrants force them to bring the dregs of the NBA like the Heat are fielding?

Durant and Westbrook are locked up through 2016 and there seems to be little doubt that Harden will get his too. Ibaka's probably the greatest risk to leave of their young core. And as you note, the biggest issue is they turn into the Miami Heat with three max guys and nothing left to bring in good role players. If they didn't have such a productive and versatile supporting cast, they don't beat the Spurs.

[Maithanet]

Durant and Westbrook are locked up through 2016 and there seems to be little doubt that Harden will get his too. Ibaka's probably the greatest risk to leave of their young core. And as you note, the biggest issue is they turn into the Miami Heat with three max guys and nothing left to bring in good role players. If they didn't have such a productive and versatile supporting cast, they don't beat the Spurs.

It might be sacrilidge, but I think that going forward it is possible that Ibaka will be as important, if not more so, to the Thunder's success as Harden. Westbrook and Durant are both awesome scorers and having another great scorer, particularly one who plays well off the bench, is fantastic, but the defense is the bigger issue. Ibaka is already a very good defender with his athleticism and length, and he's still improving. His shot blocking and ability to make open jumpers really wore the Spurs down in games 5 and 6.

[Greywolf2375]

I would be in favor of this. Their team as currently constructed only works in video games. And, unlike virtually everyone else, I actually do want Lebron to win a title (although once he wins one, I'll probably stop caring).

If he had stayed in Cleveland or went to Miami (or anywhere else) without The Decision, I would want his talent rewarded with a ring.

As it is...not so much.

So...best to never win a ring:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/432166-the-20-greatest-players-in-nba-history-without-a-ring#/articles/432166-the-20-greatest-players-in-nba-history-without-a-ring/page/27

Not sure I agree with some of them - Oakley for instance. But for the most part, that's a pretty nasty grouping of talent that never got to wear a ring because of people named Russell, Bird, Johnson, Jordan. It's weird looking at some of those guys and seeing how many were with one team for the majority if not all of their career. You'd think some of them would have done with Malone did in going to a contender towards the end of their career whether through their own design or the teams.

[slothman92]

The generational factor is partly what makes this final four so interesting. This should be the Heat's time to shine. Boston is amazingly old - they're the mid 90s core (Garnett drafted in '95, Allen in '96, Pierce in '98). San Antonio is also old: all late 90s-very early 2000s (Duncan in '97, Ginoblii in '99, Parker in '01).

The Heat's core are the middle aged team of the group: all of their big 3 were drafted in the first five picks of 2003. That was considered the best draft in a decade and they're all in what should be in the very heart of their prime. Course they play like they think titles would just be bestowed upon them for joining up.

And Thunder are of course very young: all late 2000s draft picks (Durant in '07, Westbrook in '08, Harden in '09) and with the way they're playing, they don't seem content to wait to reach their primes to win titles. And if they win this year, this could be the beginning of a long reign

I mean what other title contending teams look like they're poised to really get better over the next few years? You have to think the sun is setting on all three of the teams who dominated the Western Conference over the last 15 years: The Lakers, Spurs and Mavericks. Maybe one of those teams steals one more title, but that's about all you can realistically expect. Are the Clippers rising? I'm never convinced with that franchise. And really there's no-one else you can point to as having the makings of a title contending core.

Out east you pretty much only have the Heat and the Bulls. I think the Bulls need one more star piece and unless the Heat pull it together immediately, as in tonight, they could get broken up or reloaded or whatever. That said, with Lebron, you have to think the Heat will be title contenders for years to come. Regardless of how this year turns out, it's easy to imagine the Thunder and the Heat meeting up multiple times in the finals.

The only x-factor I see is where Dwight Howard goes. He's the one guy who could alter the balance of power for the next 5 years, and to a lesser extent Deron Williams...if he goes to the right team.

Durant and Westbrook are locked up through 2016 and there seems to be little doubt that Harden will get his too. Ibaka's probably the greatest risk to leave of their young core. And as you note, the biggest issue is they turn into the Miami Heat with three max guys and nothing left to bring in good role players. If they didn't have such a productive and versatile supporting cast, they don't beat the Spurs.

One of the Lakers, Spurs, or Mavs will have to make a significant move to contend, which may actually happen, as both the Mavs and Lakers are trying for major shakeups. I think the Mavs have the best chance if they can pair Dirk with someone who can create shots for himself and others. Dirk is one year emoved from running through all of the leagues top stars on a team where he was the only player that could create a shot in a half court set. His stlye of play lends itself to longevity more than Koby as well. I the Mavs can pick up Deron Williams and a couple good defenders they could challenge again.

[Jaime L]

One of the Lakers, Spurs, or Mavs will have to make a significant move to contend, which may actually happen, as both the Mavs and Lakers are trying for major shakeups. I think the Mavs have the best chance if they can pair Dirk with someone who can create shots for himself and others. Dirk is one year emoved from running through all of the leagues top stars on a team where he was the only player that could create a shot in a half court set. His stlye of play lends itself to longevity more than Koby as well. I the Mavs can pick up Deron Williams and a couple good defenders they could challenge again.

Y'know a few months ago I thought the Mavericks were in great position to reload. But if they can't get Howard, and it's gonna be tough because he signed that 1 year extension and they have nothing to offer in trade, then I don't see them becoming a title contender. Even if Deron Williams goes there, they don't have the defensive force in the middle that would lift them back up to title contender. The Heat have all the talent in the world and yet we're all watching them struggle to beat good teams because they don't have that big man in the middle.

It's looking like Cuban really screwed the pooch by not re-signing Chandler when they had the chance. They've gone all in on getting Howard and Williams which I get, but if they don't get Howard, the plan's a failure IMO.

[slothman92]

Y'know a few months ago I thought the Mavericks were in great position to reload. But if they can't get Howard, and it's gonna be tough because he signed that 1 year extension and they have nothing to offer in trade, then I don't see them becoming a title contender. Even if Deron Williams goes there, they don't have the defensive force in the middle that would lift them back up to title contender. The Heat have all the talent in the world and yet we're all watching them struggle to beat good teams because they don't have that big man in the middle.

It's looking like Cuban really screwed the pooch by not re-signing Chandler when they had the chance. They've gone all in on getting Howard and Williams which I get, but if they don't get Howard, the plan's a failure IMO.

As a Mavs fan I don't even want to go down the Chandler road, still bitter. Why not just get Williams and Chandler? If you think that you can afford williams and howard how could you not afford williams and chandler. But they gave us a bunch of salary cap bs for why we could not keep chandler and get anyone else. The Mavs spent Dirk's wjole career trying to find the right big man to pari with him. Chandler was the perfect combo of defense and attitude that they finally found and then we give him away... First time I have ever felt like this front office let me down.

The thing with the Mavs retooling for the offseason that everyone is overemphasizing is that they have to get a top free agent or bust. Almost all NBA transactions happen via sign and trade. Most of there top targets are guys they can trade all of there new found cap space for (Deng, Gay, etc).

[Guest]

As a Mavs fan I don't even want to go down the Chandler road, still bitter.

Try being a Blazer fan and going down the Durant road. :)

[Jaime L]

Try being a Blazer fan and going down the Durant road. :)

Almost as bad, I would think, as being a Supersonics fan and going down the Durant road.

[Guest]

Almost as bad, I would think, as being a Supersonics fan and going down the Durant road.

Tou-fucking-ché

You've got me there.

[Mya Stone]

Rhom, you ready to take me (and the boys) in?

I'm thinking if they pull off a championship, renaming Mav as Paul Pierce Roberts and Bran as Rajon Rondo Roberts. Might as well do em both.

[Guest]

Rhom, you ready to take me (and the boys) in?

I'm thinking if they pull off a championship, renaming Mav as Paul Pierce Roberts and Bran as Rajon Rondo Roberts. Might as well do em both.

When Mav gets older he'll approach girls with "My name is Maverick, but you can call me The Truth."

[Reposado]

ok, lebron is playing this game like a dunyain.

[Minaku]

This is what 2000 years of conditioning will do... wait, unless you're Moenghus.

[Reposado]

This is what 2000 years of conditioning will do... wait, unless you're Moenghus.

he already knows what you are going to do

[Ser Hippie]

Wade must be thrilled Lebron is going off or his 2/10 noshow would be the story

[Minaku]

Why not let LeBron work? If he's in the zone, don't butt in. Let the man show people why he's a great basketball player.

[Ser Hippie]

My point wasn't that Wade should have scored more by hogging the ball - it's that he was having another off night (even after hitting 3 shots in a row) and hasn't really been on his game since Game 2, but it's James that's been getting the criticism. The problem in game 5, for example, was a lot more about the Heat running their offense through a struggling Wade than James "choking"

[Jaime L]

Looks like Lebron is determined to overshadow Durant's performance last night. This is really the first time we've seen this Lebron since his Cavs days back when he was scoring 29 of the final 30 points to overcome Detroit or singlehandedly battling the Celtics big three to a standstill. Maybe he's finally realized that this Heat team with an injured Bosh and an increasingly ineffective Wade isn't so different from all those Cavs teams. He's finally committed to taking his team on his back and dominating which is what I think everyone was waiting for from him, even the haters, like me, who couldn't understand the milquetoast quotes and blandly "good" performances when his team needed him to be a killer out there.

The only way the Celtics would have had a chance against this force of nature is if the big 3 played great, but they've all struggled, especially Pierce who just looks exhausted. Like he can get no lift. Hopefully these guys have something left in the tank for game 7 or that'll be a rout too.

Wade must be thrilled Lebron is going off or his 2/10 noshow would be the story

His stat line will look decent after a flurry of garbage time baskets but if you look at this game, and the series as a whole, we probably should stop talking about them like they're remotely the same class of star. Wade is the clear sidekick at this point and does infinitely less to help his team win on a night-in, night-out basis than Lebron. Lebron gets all the shit for the losses, but if Wade contributed even 70% of what Lebron did on a nightly basis, like you'd expect a fellow superstar to do, they'd have probably won the series 4-0 or 4-1. I don't know if it's just Lebron's presence, or the lack of a big man, or maybe he's flat breaking down, but Wade is not the same player he was 2-3 years ago.

[Trebla]

Props to LeBron for his awesome F.U. game! :eek: As much as I hate the Heat, the basketball fan in me wants to see OKC vs Miami. Good vs Evil.