[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[Lord of Many Faces]

-Jon/Quorin half-brain's relationship. None of the "ride with them" business. Quorin being taken in chains... No. And it just looks like Quorin attacks Jon for no reason. When would they have time alone to stage this? What's Jon's reasons for being with the wildlings now?

-Robb breaks his oath absent of grief and with full premeditation. He even discusses it with Catelyn who wasn't even there. Bran/Rickon's "death" has nothing to do with it. He just decides to break his word because of Jeyne/whatever her name is who kept following him and questioning his politics.

-When did Hot Pie learn Arya is a girl? He does know, right?

-Petyr opening approaches Sansa. They've completely ruined one of the twists of the third book.

-When the last scene appeared, I joked with my family that it would be another scene where Sam goes on about Gilly. Sadly, it actually was the case. That type of talk is suggestive of oath breaking. Although the glimpse of the whites who don't kill Sam for some reason was great, the ending of the 2nd book with Bran was much better. Speaking of which...

-WTF! Winterfell burns off-screen! Theon's finale ends with being bonked on the head? Seriously? A great speech's with what could have led to a great scene with Ramsey (who never shows up) lost all its thunder with that. Why did they kill Maester Luwin? And why did he act rather well in his last scene? I was hoping for the last line of Bran's last chapter to be the season's last words, but that was hoping for too much from these writers.

- When Theon asked Luwin's council, I expected to hear "take the black" but he says "run." My jaw dropped at that. And Dagmar and the others just leave like it'll be no problem.

-No prophecies for Daenerys. There were over 20 to use, and instead they made up their own.

-Why are the dragons so small? Have they still not eaten? That was one of the dropped topics from episode 1; as was Tyrion getting the poison from Pycelle. Anyway, that seen in the house of the undying was so unimaginative.

- Daenerys is now a looter. And she puts Xaro in a valyrian steel (right...) safe with nothing in it. How's that going to work for the fifth book?

- Jaime learns Brienne is a good fighter through 3 annoying guys who won't stop asking questions instead of going at her himself. :-(

- No Selmy. Instead Daenerys gets $$ for a ship by looting.

- When did Arya leave Harrenhal?

- Why would Varys care about Ros? None of the fans do.

The sad thing is I hear D&D have gotten 2 more seasons on their contracts for such a pitiful performance...

1) in Episode 8, Jon Snowed said to Quorin how he blames himself for causing them to get captured, but Quorin said "see to that it wasn't in vain." That should be enough to imply that they are staging it?

2) Valid point

3) How does that even matter?

4) It was already implied in season 1 that he has some sort of odd interest in Sansa

5) What makes you think that the White Walkers actually "saw" Sam? The White Walker looks at the screen, at the audience.

6) In episode 8, Tywin said that the Ironborn would probably betray Theon. Episode 10 proved it. What I think happened was that Dagmer knocked Theon out, in order to give him up to whoever was outside Winterfell.

7) Um, Luwin did say "take the black"

8) I don't think the prophecies would make much sense to non-bookreaders. especially the Blue Rose. the show never stated that Lyanna likes Blue Roses. So how would that make sense in the TV show sense

9) Wow. Never thought someone would complain about the size of the dragons at this point

10) Do you seriously think its good to have Xaro gone for 4 years and then all of a sudden back to the show? Again, think of it through scope of a Tv show

11) Why not? Dothraki loot. She's the khaleesi, they need a boat, why not loot from the person who tried to a) take your baby, B) imprison you for life?

12) Valid point

13) Valid point, but i dont think it's important

14) You serious?

15) Valid point

Base on the complaints i see so far, i think what DD should have done is place a camera infront of the books, and slowly turn the pages. That way it would stay super faithful to the books.

[Angalin]

<mod>

Nitpick without repercussion doesn't actually translate to "be as rude as you like to everybody concerned, up to and including other boarders". Just sayin'.

</mod>

[teemo]

1) in Episode 8, Jon Snowed said to Quorin how he blames himself for causing them to get captured, but Quorin said "see to that it wasn't in vain." That should be enough to imply that they are staging it?

2) Valid point

3) How does that even matter?

4) It was already implied in season 1 that he has some sort of odd interest in Sansa

5) What makes you think that the White Walkers actually "saw" Sam? The White Walker looks at the screen, at the audience.

6) In episode 8, Tywin said that the Ironborn would probably betray Theon. Episode 10 proved it. What I think happened was that Dagmer knocked Theon out, in order to give him up to whoever was outside Winterfell.

7) Um, Luwin did say "take the black"

8) I don't think the prophecies would make much sense to non-bookreaders. especially the Blue Rose. the show never stated that Lyanna likes Blue Roses. So how would that make sense in the TV show sense

9) Wow. Never thought someone would complain about the size of the dragons at this point

10) Do you seriously think its good to have Xaro gone for 4 years and then all of a sudden back to the show? Again, think of it through scope of a Tv show

11) Why not? Dothraki loot. She's the khaleesi, they need a boat, why not loot from the person who tried to a) take your baby, B) imprison you for life?

12) Valid point

13) Valid point, but i dont think it's important

14) You serious?

15) Valid point

Base on the complaints i see so far, i think what DD should have done is place a camera infront of the books, and slowly turn the pages. That way it would stay super faithful to the books.

Sorry, I'm just really frustrated with this season. Didn't mean to be a bitch and just kind of exploded. But really, you can say whatever you want, but for the good of the thread, this is typically a place where people can complain about what they want without being hassled. There are plenty of other feel-good threads out there (although there aren't as many this week).

[Angalin]

Sayin' further: if you don't like the modding, complain about it via PM, not in public. We get tetchy otherwise.

[SerMixalot]

i for one think the mods are doing a great job.

do I get anything for brownnosing?

[Bill]

House of the undying was meh. If Pyat Pree is so powerful now, how can he be burned to death so easily?

Since the existence of dragons has so much importance to the strength of sorcery, I have no problem believing there is something special about dragon fire.

[Sharpes]

Yeah, when I first heard HotU on the season 2 soundtrack and noticed a lack of morbid tension (how I imagined the undying part) I had this uneasy feeling it wouldn't be that good. Sadly, it came true. ;_;

[Lebronn Jaime]

My major nitpick with this season is this: they included nothing that makes ASoIaF special. The subtle, grey characters and the purposely atypical fantasy set the series apart from standard Fantasy fare, and none of that was translated onto the screen. In the absence of the books' internal points of view we have bipolar, exaggerated characters telling us their motivations. Every "small" plot or character change made by the writers has had a domino effect that makes other events and actions (even those that are true to the novels) seem nonsensical as well. I don't mind alterations that serve a practical filming or storytelling purpose, but we've seen too many changes that serve no purpose and only confuse the narrative.

The seemingly haphazard choices to adhere or diverge from the established story and characters leave me confounded as to what the theme(s) of this show are supposed to be. This despite all the interviews in which D&D attempt to tell me what the intention of their production is.

[Wolfheart]

Ghost? Oh yeah he was in like 2 very short scenes. NOT EVEN WITH Jon. Just THERE. At least Jon interacted with Ghost in season 1. In season 2. Ghost has just been a blur tag along. At this point I dont even know if many non readers know Ghost is still around.

And Grey Wind...sad to say also got a bit hosed. Needed him in one more seen at least by Robb side.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Folks, a personal attack is an attack on the person. Attacks on the ideas expressed by another poster are permitted. It's part of discussion.

Having said that, please keep the discussion civil. From this point on this thread posts will be deleted and suspensions dished out for personal attacks.

[/MOD]

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I was not a big fan of Brienne's extra painfully method to kill one of the soldiers, just seems like something book Brienne would never do. Brienne is never deliberately cruel.

[Baelor Blackfyre]

Base on the complaints i see so far, i think what DD should have done is place a camera infront of the books, and slowly turn the pages. That way it would stay super faithful to the books.

Ha oh man this made me laugh. Good stuff man. I enjoy the random zingers on these boards.

I personally loved the finale, but I completely understand everyone's nitpicks. It is disappointing. And since this is a nitpick thread, I shall go about nitpicking.

People say you have to just accept that the books and the show are two different and separate things. But should we really have to accept that? Especially after how well the first book was adapted.

Is it so much to ask that the show follow the books very close? We understand they have a budget, and we understand that some things we have to be excluded. But the scenes they do include shouldn't be changed for what seems like no reason. Or be simplified to satisfy the "average" viewer.

I also don't understand people saying that including the prophecies and visions would confuse non-readers, that whole chapter confused the hell out of every reader when they first went through it. That's how it's supposed to be. Sometimes you have to come to understand things. Just because you don't understand something right away doesn't make it a bad thing.

I also don't like the thought of the prophecies coming in later via Quaithe, that weakens the impact that the prophecies would have had. Martin could have easily divided the prophecies over the books via Quaithe, but he didn't. He went for the big impact that was the HotU.

[Come Try Me]

Brienne slowly killing the third soldier is entirely out of her book character.

No mention of Tysha by Tyrion all season? No mention of "my giant of a lannister?" Now Tyrion is going look like a complete dick when he offs Tywin.

Littlerfinger! Come on. Book little finger would never be that stupid.

Drogo scene was uneccessary.

[Jolene Brown]

Brienne slowly killing the third soldier is entirely out of her book character.

It's funny because in a weird way it matches the stupidity with Jaime's killing of Alton Lannister. They irritate me in identical ways. It would have made more sense for her to make some somewhat self-righteous remark like 'You gave her a slow death, but yours will be quick," or something that if I was paid to write for the show I would take more time to think of.

[Bloodraven's Lost Eye]

Every change from the book in this episode was utterly pointless, and the annoying thing is, I can't think of genuinely good reasons for any of them. At all.

This is exactly how I feel... To me it seems like the director of this episode had too much pride to just use the good, cinematographic writing by GRRM.

[Les Berceaux]

Nope the horse shat in front of the throne, not outside the throne room.

This is my major nitpick from episode #20. It was still hilarious, but could have been sooo fantastic (albeit a little too campy) if it had happened directly in front of the throne.

Can I just ask, and I hope nobody interprets this as bitching about those who bitch, but is it fair for us to assume the directors have read the books? Maybe this should be discussed in another thread, because the obvious follow up question is: should the directors feel obligated to read the books?

[Jolene Brown]

It is hugely unlikely that the directors have read the books. It is not even necessarily the case, I would guess, that they have seen much of the show.

[Roose Seal]

Most of the actors haven't even read the books.

And I'm starting to think the writers only read the chapter summaries on the wiki.

[StarkWard]

I'm going to post even before reading all the other lot in this thread. I was even dreading to go here after the episode ended.

First off,

1. No Northern wedding? In the books, they never really show what ceremony was used, but I was really looking forward to an exchange of cloaks, perhaps a makeshift one for Jeyne/Talisa.

2. Shae really loves her lion now. We don't really know if she voluntarily crept in Tywin's bed, but in the books, I always thought of her as a whore, just that. No loyalty whatsoever. Perhaps D&D want to make her "betrayal" more heartbreaking.

3. Where the hell is Ghost?! He was the only external factor that made it possible for Jon to defeat Quorin. Now, Jon looks like a better fighter than he really is.

4. I was expecting to see Jaime and Brienne fighting together. I guess they reserved all that for season 3.

5. Since this is nitpicking anyway, Jaqen's Face#2 looks like the horned monster from Pan's Labyrinth. Okay, that's overboard, maybe a random character from Narnia.

6. I trembled more on the wildling camp than seeing the Others + wights.

[tws1978]

Aggo, Jhogo, Rakharo

Irri, Doreah and Jhiqui

Ok what's deal?

First they mess around with Aggo, Jhogo, Rakharo , I don't even know who is left? First of the season she has three, now there is only one?

Well we know about the acting career of one of those, would minded if he had his place taken by one other warrior in Dany's Khal, there seemed to be others.

Last year they messed with Irri, Doreah and Jhiqui... have to go back and look but seemed there three, tho not those three last year.

Now zero Handmadiens!

What's the deal, not major characters, but not minor characters.

As I have said before those 6 continue a Dothraki continuity as a spiritual undertow that George has kept through out all five novels. An essential trimming.

Yeah I know even more characters to be added next year, but the contracts of these characters must have been year by year. They could not have been than expensive! Their speaking roles were minimal but their presence added to the spirit, why take that away?

Most of actors doesn´t want to spend weeks and weeks on the set doing nothing. That´s why the original Mountain left. The characters you named had a meaningfull supporting speaking roles in the first season but eventually become just a part of the background scenery. That´s easy for GRRM who just every 200 or so pages gives them a line or mentions their presence, but it´s not possible for the show. The actors wants to have an actual roles to play and the show can´t give them a fullscale pay for something what´s essentially an extra or underfives work. And even if they agreed on a paycut the show is still produced on location and that means hotel, plane tickets, catering all paid by the production. Not really worthy for a few "it is known."