[Book Spoilers] R.I.P -- Lord Ramsay Snow -- Theon's Exit

[mcb]

what happened to the army outside WF after WF burned???

You mean what did Ramsay and his men do after they burned Winterfell? Went home, I guess. What else?

[CardMaster24]

I was so prepared for some awesome fight scene after that speach though then when the dude knocked him out it was the biggest anticlimax yet

For me Theon's whole storyline has been dissapointing in comparison to the books. When they miss out on Ramasy Snow's whole plot line it kind of screwed things up.

[StarkBlack21]

Did anybody catch that ALFIE ALLEN just admitted that JOHN SNOW'S parents are LYANNA AND RHAEGAR!? LOL Hilarious. He says Martin told him who Snow's parents are and alludes to Luke Skywalker and Star Wars. I know we all knew who Jon's parents were, but funny how Alfie just basically confirms it.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/06/game-of-thrones-theon-alfie-allen-interview.html?imw=Y

[StarkBlack21]

No one see the Alfie interview?

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Did anybody catch that ALFIE ALLEN just admitted that JOHN SNOW'S parents are LYANNA AND RHAEGAR!? LOL Hilarious. He says Martin told him who Snow's parents are and alludes to Luke Skywalker and Star Wars. I know we all knew who Jon's parents were, but funny how Alfie just basically confirms it.

http://www.vulture.c...view.html?imw=Y

Yup.

[Frumpus]

Er explain how the Luke Skywalker reference means R+L=J? Alfie Allen goes on to mention incest, which leads me to think he's implying Ned + Lyanna.

[ckongo]

What I've realized is that the ASOIF series is a house of cards. When you change one thing, nothing makes sense anymore. And the writers have changed MANY things this season. That ending made no sense. Where did the iron men go? How did they get out? Why didn't Luwin mention what happened? Why did Bran take off if there is no Ramsay? How could he be looking for the 3 eyed crow without the Reeds? Why wasn't there a parley? How did Roderic manage to reach Winterfell alone after Torren's Square? And on and on and on...

[Lord Godric]

Way to go, Alfie!

[ckongo]

Er explain how the Luke Skywalker reference means R+L=J? Alfie Allen goes on to mention incest, which leads me to think he's implying Ned + Lyanna.

It suggests that Jon doesn't know who his father actually is, much like Luke Skywalker.

[StarkBlack21]

Also, like Luke Skywalker, John's father is the guy you least expect -- RHAEGAR TARGARYEN. Plus Rhaegar is colored like a bag guy by outsiders. That is the parallel. Most everyone expects Rhaegar to be John's father so it's not much of a surprise. But still a lil surprised Alfie was so open with it. But at this point I'm sure GRRM has made peace with the fact everyone who has read the books knows the answer.

[Lord Godric]

Also, like Luke Skywalkwer he is raised by his aunt and uncle.

[StarkBlack21]

Also, like Luke Skywalkwer he is raised by his aunt and uncle.

BINGO! I totally forgot about that. Good catch!

[Darth Pipes]

I don't see how a non-viewer would think it's the Ironborn. Robb had it known that the Ironborn would be free to go if they gave up Theon Greyjoy. But I'm pretty sure if you burn down the freakin home of the Starks, your immunity would be forfeit.

[Lord Balbi]

The three non book readers I know who watch didn't even mention the burning when discussing it with me. I didn't let on anything except I'm wondering if they have ADHD or if they somehow think that 20 guys surrounded by 500 armed men would take it upon themselves to burn Winterfell down, especially considering they are going to the trouble of giving up their King's son I couldn't see them being so stupid as risking retaliation by doing this when they assume they are scott free from that betrayal. Then again the are iron born...

Same here! I asked 4 non-reader friends and they all just assumed the ironborn burned Winterfell. They weren't even asking "why would they do that?". They just thought that they knocked down Theon since they didn't want to fight and burned winterfell during their attempt to flee.

Then I asked "Wasn't it clear they wanted to surrender to the nothmen? It even shows in the freaking preview!!! How would they flee a castle under siege?" The answer of course "I don't know".

I guess maybe that shows how the average viewer doesn't really care enough. They just accept it.

Edit: typo

[Harrad]

There is really no evidence at all to decide how Winterfell got burned. Similarly in the books, the Stark boys are cornfused. No big deal. For non-readers, Theon's fate is also unclear. Some think he is being dragged back to Pyke.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

secondly, related to winterfell, i didn't realize it until talking with a few non-book readers, but it really doesn't make sense that bran and company leave winterfell for the north given that it's never explained to them what happened in winterfell. in the book, they know that ramsey burned it down and is aware that they're still alive so they're really in danger. but here, the viewer, as well as bran and co. are under the impression that the iron-islanders are the ones who burned down winterfell, but they're gone now, so there is no threat still in winterfell, so why run away?

That's a good point. I can understand why they didn't introduce Ramsay this season -- hiring an actor for one show and that's it doesn't make much sense. And I think they decided that given that, they'd like to keep the whole Ramsay betrayal a major surprise to open up next season -- helps build tension to the RW. But unfortunately, keeping that a secret does create the problem you describe.

Also, uh, didn't think of this until now, but there's another problem. Maester Luwin was clearly intended not to survive, because Ramsay would not have wanted anyone to know what really happened. Yet, in that last scene, we're left with Winterfell not flaming, but in smoking ruins. In other words, it had been many hours since Luwin had been stabbed by Theon, and yet, he was still alive. So the wound could not have been quite as reliably mortal as necessary, opening the possibility that the Bastard may have screwed up by having Luwin survive. And that makes absolutely no sense at all, because anyone might have wandered into the castle at that point, heard Luwin's story, and blown the whistle.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

That's a good point. I can understand why they didn't introduce Ramsay this season -- hiring an actor for one show and that's it doesn't make much sense. And I think they decided that given that, they'd like to keep the whole Ramsay betrayal a major surprise to open up next season -- helps build tension to the RW. But unfortunately, keeping that a secret does create the problem you describe.

Also, uh, didn't think of this until now, but there's another problem. Maester Luwin was clearly intended not to survive, because Ramsay would not have wanted anyone to know what really happened. Yet, in that last scene, we're left with Winterfell not flaming, but in smoking ruins. In other words, it had been many hours since Luwin had been stabbed by Theon, and yet, he was still alive. So the wound could not have been quite as reliably mortal as necessary, opening the possibility that the Bastard may have screwed up by having Luwin survive. And that makes absolutely no sense at all, because anyone might have wandered into the castle at that point, heard Luwin's story, and blown the whistle.

Lewin used the secret escape routes he talked to Theon about on the show. I'm sure on the show he just escaped while the Ironborn were handing over Theon.

[teemo]

Wow, Alfie sure talks a lot. I wish they asked him more probing questions.

[Targaryen Kaiser]

Have you ever thought that they may have deliberately let the whole situation about Winterfell unclear or they did intend to confuse the tv-viewers in thinking that the Ironborn burnt the castle?

[Harrad]

Have you ever thought that they may have deliberately let the whole situation about Winterfell unclear or they did intend to confuse the tv-viewers in thinking that the Ironborn burnt the castle?

IRL its more often not clear whats happened. Even eyewitnesses get it wrong, and in this case there were none. As people above noted the Maester probably was not conscious or present when the handover of Theon and the burning of Winterfell occurred. Anyone else looking forward to the extended flaying scene in the Dreadfort?