Kelli Fury Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Kay -- that option is on the table but will get shelved for now. I can't miss out on summer!Shows what kind of patriot you are, how is he going to miss summer with it if one brave American doesn't get it and give it to him. We all know that diahrrea is only added warmth in the Minnesota winter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The first paragraph is mostly related to lay overreaction, and less important for medical monitoring, but it does mean a lot of (or only) false positive correlations that take a lot of time and effort to check.But it has been shown that waiting until the child is older is a risk. While any connection between auto-immune diseases and vaccinations is just as tenuous as between vaccination and autism. So even though an autoimmune disease of the child might be more likely in view of family heritage, the odds of vaccination either causing it or inducing it are tiny. So wanting to wait, from a risk perspective, is not a good idea. Especially in an environment with already dropping herd protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Shouldn't it be troop protection? Herds are for things with hooves, not us glorious primates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childe roland Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I find the argument for waiting til a child is 5 or so to start vaccinating fascinating. He watches all these under 5 yr olds? The great majority of parents i know send their kids to a form of daycare well before they are 5. My daughter started pre-school today at 3 1/2 yrs old. The school recquired immunization records and I believe they are right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWife Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Parents can split up shots if they want, but I had to go in search of this information. My doctor certainly didn't bring it up. As for vaccinating, I guess every parent must make this choice. My older brother lost his son (4.5 months old) on Thanksgiving last year to HiB. HiB vaccines are given to children and he was vaccinated, but who knows. The doctor says it was a 1 in a million deal.I do wonder, though, with all the news coverage about offices improperly storing vaccines. In the end, vaccines aren't a guarantee for everyone. They are generated to trigger an immune response and immune systems are not identical in all people. Not trying to tell anyone to stop vaccinating their kids, but parents can educate themselves. I do think they go overboard now. There is a chicken pox vaccine, if I recall. I'm pretty sure we turned that one down (and a few others that I can't recall off the top of my head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Parents can split up shots if they want, but I had to go in search of this information. My doctor certainly didn't bring it up. As for vaccinating, I guess every parent must make this choice. My older brother lost his son (4.5 months old) on Thanksgiving last year to HiB. HiB vaccines are given to children and he was vaccinated, but who knows. The doctor says it was a 1 in a million deal.I do wonder, though, with all the news coverage about offices improperly storing vaccines.That's terrible - was it actually HiB? There are "nontypeable" forms of H. flu that the vaccine does not cover. At the age he wouldn't have completed the primary series either. In the end, vaccines aren't a guarantee for everyone. They are generated to trigger an immune response and immune systems are not identical in all people. Not trying to tell anyone to stop vaccinating their kids, but parents can educate themselves. I do think they go overboard now. There is a chicken pox vaccine, if I recall. I'm pretty sure we turned that one down (and a few others that I can't recall off the top of my head).They're a guarantee for 95%+ of people, though of course things like influenza are much more difficult. And why is it going overboard? Getting an actual varicella infection is NOT better - aside from the general malaise and days of school (and having to keep those with chicken pox away from, say, pregnant women or other adults without history of infection), there's the ever-pleasant risk of staph-infected vesicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I do wonder, though, with all the news coverage about offices improperly storing vaccines. The health system that I worked for was one of these "major news story". What happened was one of the hospital pharmacy in our system had one of its medication refrigerator go down. Normally, we have a warning system that let us know when something like this happens. But on that day, it wasn't working. So by the time someone noticed, the fridge was at 76 degree F. But we don't know for how long. So all medications had to be thrown out. This somehow got to the news that we mis-stored flu vaccines and had to throw away all of that hospital supply for the year and that made us looked bad in a year that the vaccine was in shortage. All vaccines are refrigerated except a few that need to be frozen. Usually those are the live attenuated one. In the end, vaccines aren't a guarantee for everyone. They are generated to trigger an immune response and immune systems are not identical in all people. Not trying to tell anyone to stop vaccinating their kids, but parents can educate themselves. Sure they aren't a 100% guaranteed but by far, they are the most effective means to combat a disease. No singular treatment modality has the potential to totally eradicate a transmittable disease like vaccine can. Vaccine is a reason why smallpox is not around anymore. I do think they go overboard now. There is a chicken pox vaccine, if I recall. I'm pretty sure we turned that one down (and a few others that I can't recall off the top of my head).It is your choice to whether give your child varicella vaccine or not. However, in a couple of years, most school systems will require varicella vaccines as part of the normal immunization records. Most health systems are requiring it prior to employment (at least in Wisconsin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 And why is it going overboard? Getting an actual varicella infection is NOT better - aside from the general malaise and days of school (and having to keep those with chicken pox away from, say, pregnant women or other adults without history of infection), there's the ever-pleasant risk of staph-infected vesicles.Like I said, I remember how miserable my little sister was with chicken pox, and, like I said, she still has the scars. I can also remember my friends little brother getting the mumps.If you've ever seen a kid with either of those...you'd stop using the "but the shots make my child cry...." comment. Well, by "you", I mean those that use that reason as an excuse.Hell, I remember "needle" day at public school, where they lined up all us primary kids, and stuck us. Worst thing that ever happened was Tommy-Bob used to faint. He still does when he sees injections and such - it's a tradition to catch him with movies that show that kinda stuff....seeing him trying to cover his eyes with those stumpy fingers is pure gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 If you've ever seen a kid with either of those...you'd stop using the "but the shots make my child cry...." comment. Well, by "you", I mean those that use that reason as an excuse.Just to add to the previous comment -- since I am 60 years old, I myself had to live through having the measles, rubella, and chicken pox when I was a child. I still remember how the chicken pox itched and being soaked in a bathtub with baking soda in the water to try to stop that.I have two first cousins who are about 12 years older than I am who had to live through polio (and who still have consequences from it today even though their cases were mild.) I think it's marvelous that we have vaccines against those diseases and sure wish they had been available for me and my relatives. I am very grateful that polio vaccine was available for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Like I said, I remember how miserable my little sister was with chicken pox, and, like I said, she still has the scars.Wikipedia informs me that the shingles vaccine is suitable only for over-60. The alternative to children catching chickenpox that does not involve adults catching shingles therefore appears to be a series of booster chickenpox vaccinations continuing until the shingles vaccine becomes appropriate. Please correct me if I'm wrong and the shingles vaccine may be given earlier - I'm not a doctor, let alone an American one.Ormond - I'm 32 and my sister is 27, and I remember bathing in calamine lotion for the chickenpox itch. Rejoice in your chickenpox. It's possibly stopped you getting a much more serious illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Actually, getting chicken pox as a child is what leaves you open to shingles as an adult...the virus stays in your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ormond - I'm 32 and my sister is 27, and I remember bathing in calamine lotion for the chickenpox itch. Rejoice in your chickenpox. It's possibly stopped you getting a much more serious illness.Hate to disagree with you on two different threads within the space of a few minutes -- but I believe Nukealavee is correct. It is precisely because I did have chicken pox as a child that it's possible for me to have shingles as an adult. I don't think there is any "more serious illness" that having chicken pox stops me from having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ahhh. So if we eliminated the one we could eliminate the other? But it's definitely exposure to low-level chickenpox antigens that creates shingles immunity... illness and cure in one. This is confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixodes Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Ahhh. So if we eliminated the one we could eliminate the other? But it's definitely exposure to low-level chickenpox antigens that creates shingles immunity... illness and cure in one. This is confusing.It is confusing. The theory is that adults, who presumably have had chicken pox exposure as a child, get repeated exposure mid life when their kids get chicken pox. This gives the immune system a "booster". Since childhood chicken pox outbreaks are way down, this mid life booster doesn't happen. The immunity to the virus wanes and then when you are geriatric the virus jumps out again (it was sequestered in the nerve cells just the immune system kept it under wraps). Or so the theory goes. This is why the adult shingles vaccine was created.What will be interesting is what will happen once the first generation of chicken pox vaccinated kids gets older. It may turn out that reducing chicken pox outbreaks for kids prevents shingles as they get older. The vaccine hasn't been around long enough to see if this is the case, but it does theoretically make sense. It figures, my kids will reap benefits but I'll be too busy dealing with a painful shingles outbreak to care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Apparently there is *some* evidence that childhood immunization has accompanied declining incidence of shingles, but at the very least there hasn't been an increase. Hate to disagree with you on two different threads within the space of a few minutes -- but I believe Nukealavee is correct. It is precisely because I did have chicken pox as a child that it's possible for me to have shingles as an adult. I don't think there is any "more serious illness" that having chicken pox stops me from having.I think she meant that having had it as a child prevented you from getting a primary infection as an adult, which can be a serious illness, as opposed to shingles, which we'll probably all get eventually (well at least 20-30% anyway). Stupid herpes viruses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Apparently there is *some* evidence that childhood immunization has accompanied declining incidence of shingles, but at the very least there hasn't been an increase.I think she meant that having had it as a child prevented you from getting a primary infection as an adult, which can be a serious illness, as opposed to shingles, which we'll probably all get eventually (well at least 20-30% anyway). Stupid herpes viruses...Actually pretty smart, for hiding out in nerve clusters and that. It managed to figure out that nerves are the garage of the body - no one ever cleans it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothman92 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 As we all know there is no credible link for causation between MMR and autism.In my opinion there is one piece of very interesting circumstantial evidence between the autism and inflammatory bowel spectrums and measles.http://gut.bmj.com/c...8/6/748.extracthttp://www.icdrc.org/documents/Abstract%20702%20Abnormal%20Measles%20Serology%20and%20Autoimmunity.pdfhttp://www.springerl...020r2547565j37/http://www.pedneur.c...0627-6/abstractAs far as I know these results have not been replicated on a larger level. There is no known or even hypothesized biological mechanism for the presence of the measles virus in the gut or increased measles anti-bodies in people with some form of inflammatory bowel or autism. I am assuming the only time these people have been exposed is by vaccination.My cousin falls into this category, massive regression around 2 years, he just got back from Johns Hopkins where they found the measles virus in his gut. They have recently figured out he has had gut issues for a while (recently confirmed the inflammation, otherwise its hard to get him to communicate if something hurts etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 As we all know there is no credible link for causation between MMR and autism.In my opinion there is one piece of very interesting circumstantial evidence between the autism and inflammatory bowel spectrums and measles.http://gut.bmj.com/c...8/6/748.extracthttp://www.icdrc.org...utoimmunity.pdfhttp://www.springerl...020r2547565j37/http://www.pedneur.c...0627-6/abstractAs far as I know these results have not been replicated on a larger level. There is no known or even hypothesized biological mechanism for the presence of the measles virus in the gut or increased measles anti-bodies in people with some form of inflammatory bowel or autism. I am assuming the only time these people have been exposed is by vaccination.My cousin falls into this category, massive regression around 2 years, he just got back from Johns Hopkins where they found the measles virus in his gut. They have recently figured out he has had gut issues for a while (recently confirmed the inflammation, otherwise its hard to get him to communicate if something hurts etc).As far as I can tell this is related to the utterly debunked Wakefield studies. So no this is with a high probability not a valid mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothman92 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 As far as I can tell this is related to the utterly debunked Wakefield studies. So no this is with a high probability not a valid mechanism.These findings are independent of Wakefield. No one is saying it is a valid mechanism, it is just something that has been discovered that there is not an explanation for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothman92 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 These findings are independent of Wakefield. No one is saying it is a valid mechanism, it is just something that has been discovered that there is not an explanation for.Actually I take that back, I did not see he was the final author listed in this study http://www.springerlink.com/content/l8020r2547565j37/?MUD=MP. I wonder what his actual intput in the study was, as all the other authors were not associated in his lancet study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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