Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 A question for any Alien expert on the connection between the end of Prometheus and beginning of Alien. This is not the same planet that the Nostromo landed on? So the appearence of the blueman ship is just a coincidence on both? Maybe the alien brain parasite that turned the superintelligent bluemen into killing machines made the other ship crash too?And another points about Prometheus--its interesting that the technology of 2094 was able to remove the parasite from Noomi in her self-surgery but that didn't seem possible in the future years. Different parasite I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 A question for any Alien expert on the connection between the end of Prometheus and beginning of Alien. This is not the same planet that the Nostromo landed on?Negative. Alien and Aliens are set on LV-426, a moon orbiting a reddish-orange ringed gas giant in the Zeta Reticuli-2 star system 40 light-years from Earth.Prometheus is set on LV-223, a moon oribiting a ringed blueish gas giant in an unknown star system 35 light-years from Earth. So the appearence of the blueman ship is just a coincidence on both? Maybe the alien brain parasite that turned the superintelligent bluemen into killing machines made the other ship crash too?Probably not a coincidence. Prometheus is the first movie in a planned trilogy. Apparently Prometheus 3 will reveal why the ship crashed on LV-426.You may at this point want to point out that the ship on LV-426 had been there for thousands of years and the Space Jockey in that film had started to fossilise, which seems to cause continuity issues. Since Ridley Scott has seemingly forgotten about this point, I suggest you do so as well :)Also, the space jockey didn't turn into a nutcase because of an alien parasite, but because he was on a mission to wipe out the human race and wasn't too keen when a whole bunch of them woke him up. Especially: "Who's woken me up? Young Magneto, Lysa Arryn and Mike from Neighbours in an old man suit? No! A thousand times no!"And another points about Prometheus--its interesting that the technology of 2094 was able to remove the parasite from Noomi in her self-surgery but that didn't seem possible in the future years. Different parasite I guess.The problem in Aliens wasn't removing the alien parasite once injected but getting the facehugger off the victim without killing them. Also, the Company didn't both telling the colonists about the alien's lifecycle, meaning they didn't have a clue WTF was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Also, the space jockey didn't turn into a nutcase because of an alien parasite, but because he was on a mission to wipe out the human race and wasn't too keen when a whole bunch of them woke him up. Especially: "Who's woken me up? Young Magneto, Lysa Arryn and Mike from Neighbours in an old man suit? No! A thousand times no!"Thanks for some movie facts. I still don't buy that was rational behavior by the blueman. Their vendetta against their progeny (us) must be quite savage for that behavior. Two more movies to explain that point. The Girl Who Played WIth Anti-matter, and The Girl Who Dematerialized The Blueman Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naz Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Btw, I'm not totally against ambiguity and setting up questions that aren't answered. That part of Damon Lindelof's mileu I can live with. It's the sloppy manipulation with which he tries to force this ambiguity upon you is what I don't like. He did it in Lost and does it here again.E.g., I can buy not knowing why the Engineers created us and then wanted to destroy us. I can see a bigger picture there, a deeper mythology. And I'm willing to wait and see if it gets resolved in future films. I'd even be ok if it wasn't resolved. But the take-away from that non-resolution in the macro sense has to be some deeper understanding of humanity in the micro sense. Ok, in Lost, we don't really get to know why everything is the way it is, but the payoff is that we share the struggles of the individual characters as they try to find meaning and purpose in their lives and try to build relationships. There is NOTHING of that here. And you can't use the excuse that it's just a 2-hr movie and there's no time... it was done (and well-done for that matter) by the same director in Alien. You understand each character's motivations and the struggles they have and the choices they make. You sympathize with Dallas as he tries to protect his crew. You feel Ash's cold disregard for the crew's lives and understand why he imperils them. And Ripley's determined survival instinct is well-established by her growing alarm at the actions of the crew after picking up the facehugger.In this film, we hardly have a chance to empathize with these characters at all. We're supposed to feel something for Shaw because of a lame dream-flashback of her and her father? Using the most cliched of backstory empathy-generators??Lindelof aims to achieve the ambiguity of a greater mythology, and tries to elevate the story by making it about "asking more questions", but he fails to establish any impetus for the viewer's desire to pursue those questions in any case. There's no desperation, e.g., in the captain's desire to just "go home", so the viewer doesn't feel torn about wanting to just end the whole affair vs wanting to find out why this is happening. No one is making a strong enough case either way and so the viewer just follows along, without caring overly much.When there should be tension between Vickers and Weyland, there is nothing. Just a few words about not getting a chance to "take over" the Company. In trying to create an ambiguity about what the Company wants and how it functions, he instead creates two unlikeable characters that set into motion a massively huge task without giving the viewer any particular reason to care as much. Ok, Weyland spent a trillion dollars so that he could live forever and his daughter is upset because she won't get to put on the mantle. That's so trivial in relation to the larger mythology that we can't be made to give a shit about it or them.Shaw asks the captain why he doesn't have the urge to answer the meaning behind life and humanity and he says it's because he's just hired to fly the ship. He's not interested in the bigger picture, and frankly, I'm not sure why we should be either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Thanks for some movie facts. I still don't buy that was rational behavior by the blueman. Their vendetta against their progeny (us) must be quite savage for that behavior. Two more movies to explain that point. The Girl Who Played WIth Anti-matter, and The Girl Who Dematerialized The Blueman Group.Something that is extremely distressing is an interview with Lindelof where he said, "The Engineers were planning to wipe us out 2,000 years ago? I wonder why. What did we do 2,000 years ago to piss them off?"So in future films it will be revealed that Jesus was an Engineer <headdesk>I liked this idea suggested on Joe Abercrombie's blog though:And Noomi will end up birthing the first Alien Queen at the end of Prometheus3, as it bursts from her chest whilst she’s piloting an engineer ship, dressed in that engineers spacesuit, crashing on LV-426 and setting up the rest of the films.We have to ignore the fact that the Engineer in Alien was twice the size of the Engineers even in this movie to make that work, but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Shaw asks the captain why he doesn't have the urge to answer the meaning behind life and humanity and he says it's because he's just hired to fly the ship. He's not interested in the bigger picture, and frankly, I'm not sure why we should be either.Its good you can at least address the bigger picture even though you think its negated by the directing choices. I found the plot so insulting to a thoughtful audience that nothing else mattered. When Noomi entered the cave on Earth in that amateurish fashion the insults began, and at least they were consistent throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 So in future films it will be revealed that Jesus was an Engineer <headdesk>OK...Thats fantastic--Prometheus 3: The Alien, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Just returned from seeing it.Over all, I liked it. The 3D was good and without looking like it was "made for 3D". The cinematography was superb.While it is true that it didn't resemble the crew of a scientific mission, we have to realize that in reality, it wasn't a scientific mission. It was a mission of corporate/personal greed. The "scientists", were being used for their expertise, but not for scientific discovery. Possibly, Scott was trying to make some subtle comment about corporate pollution of science, but if so, I missed it. Unfortunately the scientists were anything but. Two of them so wanted something to be true, so they never tested their hypotheses. Can you imagine a scientist taking off the helmet of his space suit, solely because the air was breathable? What about contamination of himself, others or the environment?There are some continuity errors. when David removes Ellie's necklace, he has to unclasp it because the chain is not long enough to go over here head. When she puts it back on she slides it over here head. either the chain stretched or her head shrunk. If this is the same alien that was found with his chest burst in Alien, then why isn't he in the control area of his ship, rather than the floor of the Prometheus?There was a factual error in the movie. That level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would not kill in minutes. It would take a couple of days to build up to toxic levels in a human.OK, I won't obsess over this stuff. It was an entertaining popcorn movie, but no prize winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 . I think one possibly played the chick in the third terminator movie, but I didn't understand her whole character at all. She was a bitch, but she's still willing to sleep around with the crew, treats all of the scientists that she hired as if they aren't important to whatever her real motive was, and is ultimately waiting for her Dad to die. I was just confused and really uninterested in the whole thing.Uh, that's Charlize Theron. Ya know, an Oscar winner? She's an amazing actress, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I just got back from seeing it about 15 minutes ago, and I thought it was terrible. Sure, the visuals are well-done, but you'd expect that in this kind of movie, and honestly none of it really stood out to me as special (like the kind of thing you'd want to watch again just to see it).Aside from that, the movie somehow managed to make the whole thing dull. Seriously, they rush immediately from Rapace's character discovering the signs in the rock, to the spaceship getting near the target planet years later (which felt very noticeably rushed). After that, it plays out exactly how anyone who has ever seen Alien would expect it would, from the two "scientists" screwing around with the aliens and getting infected, to the point where Captain Idris Elba crashes his ship into the alien ship. At no point did I ever feel any emotional involvement in any of the characters, which meant that the horror of their situation never really had much impact. Rapace, for example, had precious little chemistry with her fellow co-scientist and husband/boyfriend/whatever.As Wert mentioned, the movie starts relying more and more on Movie Stupidity to make the plot work as it continues. I gave the movie a pass on the stupid "Chariot of the Gods" style premise, since a lot of otherwise entertaining SF stories have stupid set-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 Another thing that was absolutely no surprise was the final battle between the blueman and Noomi's squid offspring. Its not likely that Jurassic Park started that enemy vs-enemy-saves-friend scenario (T-Rex vs Velociraptor saves humans) at the end, but it did it so well, that everyone seems to steal from it now, and Ridley did it in a way that telegraphed it into no shock value at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Another thing that was absolutely no surprise was the final battle between the blueman and Noomi's squid offspring. Its not likely that Jurassic Park started that enemy vs-enemy-saves-friend scenario (T-Rex vs Velociraptor saves humans) at the end, but it did it so well, that everyone seems to steal from it now, and Ridley did it in a way that telegraphed it into no shock value at all.Funny you mention that, because that scene in JP is so fucking ludicrous.Earlier in the movie, the T-Rex isn't able to take a step without making the ground tremble, but in this scene he sneaks up on the raptors and the humans undetected using the limitless powers of dramatic tension . Also, they're inside a building at the time.This doesn't excuse Prometheus from its problems, but that scene is just such a cheap 'shock! surprise! bullshit!' scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 'shock! surprise!You got that partially right. None of that going on in Prometheus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You got that partially right. None of that going on in Prometheus.Yeah, the movie definitely wouldn't be improved with such a stupid scene, that's for sure. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Diddie Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 *SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER*They travel a trillion miles across space, they meet a living engineer, an alien responsible for creating the human species. When they ask the inevitable big questions, (Why did you make us, why are we here) the alien lifts up the android, tears his head from his shoulders and whips his twitching body against the wall.So basically the alien replies WHY? BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY!Kinda anticlimactic if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 *SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER* the alien replies WHY? BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY!Kinda anticlimactic if you ask me.It either a brain parasite or the alien's name is Blue Jesus Christ and hes pissed at what the Romans did to his bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah, the movie definitely wouldn't be improved with such a stupid scene, that's for sure. :)You got that completely right. Anything that was shocking or a surprise would have improved this dud. :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 If their DNA is a 100% match why don't we see many bald milky white 9 foot tall people running around? Obviously, we've got the potential.A couple of questions: is David repairable? Because if not there was no reason to tote his body along with his head. Why did David infect Charlie, boredom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrad Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 If their DNA is a 100% match why don't we see many bald milky white 9 foot tall people running around? Obviously, we've got the potential.A couple of questions: is David repairable? Because if not there was no reason to tote his body along with his head. Why did David infect Charlie, boredom?Yes to to the DNA question. The Blueman Group is a step in that direction.David can apparently keep going as a head. He's not going to be mobile any time in the near future, unless Noomi finds a repair station as good as her self-surgery module. Lance's head kept going between Aliens and Alien 3, but he was such a wimp he wanted to be shut off. David apparently is made of sterner stuff. Anybody see the comparison between Keir Dullea-David-Hal from 2001? David infecting Charlie was just another random stupid plot point so Ridley could recapitulate (i.e. steal) things from previous stories, including his own. As you imply, there was no reason for it, and no payoff to it. Just another random infected crew member. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Why did David infect Charlie, boredom?Same programming as the android in Alien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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