Possible 'same-sexlove' in WoW/DoS?

[Dacie]

BUT! what am i reading on JonC? this would be typical me, missing out on a gay storyline

anyone got some more backgrounf info on him (and R?)

R can't be gay right... R+L=J?

He was secretly in love with Rhaegar but Rhaegar never reciprocated.

[SkyBry]

He was secretly in love with Rhaegar but Rhaegar never reciprocated.

i knew he was in complete awe of Rhaegar, but wasn't everybody?

Did Rhaegar know?

[sumpthy]

i knew he was in complete awe of Rhaegar, but wasn't everybody?

You don't get descriptions of Rhaegar's hair blowing in the wind from Barristan Selmy or Jaime Lannister. You don't get Barristan or Jaime referring to Rhaegar as "my silver prince" either

[Dacie]

Did Rhaegar know?

That I am not completely sure of. I really don't think so. After his short stent as Hand of the King and loss at the Battle of the Bells, he was shamed and sent into exile. He sees "Aegon" as his chance for redemption.

[Winter's Knight]

s/he is a he..

Don't really think i look like a woman on my photo

I didn't know it was you and your gender is unspecified on your profile.

But you're right... no argument now..

BUT! what am i reading on JonC? this would be typical me, missing out on a gay storyline

anyone got some more backgrounf info on him (and R?)

R can't be gay right... R+L=J?

JonC's carrying a torch for Rhaegar and it irritates me that it isn't more explicitly stated especially since there's no such ambiguity in other PoV's.

[jarl the climber]

I didn't know it was you and your gender is unspecified on your profile.

JonC's carrying a torch for Rhaegar and it irritates me that it isn't more explicitly stated especially since there's no such ambiguity in other PoV's.

I'm not gay and I do not know how this works out for gay men but if you were attracted to someone like Rhaegar who is hetro you might not want to admit your feelings since they would never be fufilled. On the other hand he is long dead, why not just have him say it. JonC might also be a celibate gay man, but who knows.

[Winter's Knight]

I'm not gay and I do not know how this works out for gay men but if you were attracted to someone like Rhaegar who is hetro you might not want to admit your feelings since they would never be fufilled. On the other hand he is long dead, why not just have him say it. JonC might also be a celibate gay man, but who knows.

I did not mean that there needs to be a flashback scene of JonC pushing Rhaegar up against a wall after a particularly active bout of sparring but there isn't any indication that his feelings for the Dragon Prince were any different from Ned's for Robert.

[jarl the climber]

I did not mean that there needs to be a flashback scene of JonC pushing Rhaegar up against a wall after a particularly active bout of sparring but there isn't any indication that his feelings for the Dragon Prince were any different from Ned's for Robert.

I'll be honest and say I missed Jon being gay reading the book there are a few things he says that could be taken either way if you are even looking for it. The point I was making is that if you are gay like Jon and you are in love with someone like Rhaegar who is not gay, how do you deal with that in your mind. Probaly you would actually avoid sexualizing them in your mind I suppose.

[TyrionFan82]

Cersei & Taena's relationship was...interesting. I never knew if it was genuine or one was using the other. It's funny I found this topic today since the Unspoiled podcast just had a discussion of Renly and Loras today. As far as a new one....hmmm, not sure gotta give that some thought.

[Newstar]

I did not mean that there needs to be a flashback scene of JonC pushing Rhaegar up against a wall after a particularly active bout of sparring

Oh, I don't know: that sounds intriguing to me. Please continue!

As for Arya possibly being a lesbian, Arya's arc has nothing to do with sex or (romantic/sexual) love, apart from a bit of a ship tease with Arya/Gendry, and thank goodness for that. I mean, she might be a lesbian, but we're never likely to find out, and I think that's great.

In the ASOIAF universe, though, being a tomboy, into traditionally masculine pursuits, or even being "butch" doesn't mean you're a lesbian: short-haired, tough Asha is really, really, really into her boy toy Qarl (so that we get to read all about their gross sex), Brienne pines after Renly and then Jaime, and Lyanna was probably in love with Rhaegar. In fact, the only women we've seen in the series with same-sex inclinations are very femme: Taena, Ellaria Sand, and possibly Margaery.

...With all that said, this quote from Gawker praising Game of Thrones cracked me up: "Everyone should not only watch this latest HBO gem, they should love it. If they don't, they should be taken out in front of a crowd and have their head chopped off while their lesbian daughter watches." Hee hee hee.

[Swordsaint]

Dany is like same sex scene waiting to happen.

Dany has already had one two with her servant. Not quite sure I'd call it a sex scene, but you know what happened.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya may not have shown sexual interest in males but she's shown even less interest in females. She's 12 now so that could change within the next two books but she may be too busy for that. It depends on why she needs a pretty face for her next assignment.

She has more of a tendency to note when a male is attractive than if a female is.

He is fair of face and foul of heart, thought Arya, but she did not say it.

“She knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young.”

“He was the youngest of the three, slender, fine-featured, always smiling…”

“A man must be ashamed of the company he keeps, Arry, “ the handsome one said. “This man has the honor to be Jaqen H’ghar…”

"The handsome man had a beard of a different color every time she saw him, and a different nose, but he was never less than comely. "

She mainly hangs around males in Braavos and of the females she does are Bruscoes daughters and prostitutes. She thought that the prostitutes weren't attractive but they were nice to her so she was friendly.

She noticed Gendry's chest about twice but I don't think that was anything sexual because she was 9 at the time. I don't believe she had a crush on Gendry because of her age.

[Thendel]

I did not mean that there needs to be a flashback scene of JonC pushing Rhaegar up against a wall after a particularly active bout of sparring but there isn't any indication that his feelings for the Dragon Prince were any different from Ned's for Robert.

Ned never called Robert anything similar to "my silver prince" in his mind. He never harbored any overt jealousy against Robert's wife and/or mistresses. And you wouldn't see Ned agonized over Robert's death and still blaming himself 17 years after it happened. All of these point toward Jon having romantic feelings for Rhaegar, and the lack of these or any similar factors point toward Ned just seeing Robert as a good friend.

And please don't use the "muscled as a maiden's fantasy" to counterargument this: Robert was exceptionally well-built in his time, which lead to women swooning over him, probably passing over the plain-faced Ned in the process. There's probably a bit of old and buried resentment here, but there's nothing sexual about Ned remembering this.

[Winter's Knight]

Ned never called Robert anything similar to "my silver prince" in his mind. He never harbored any overt jealousy against Robert's wife and/or mistresses. And you wouldn't see Ned agonized over Robert's death and still blaming himself 17 years after it happened. All of these point toward Jon having romantic feelings for Rhaegar, and the lack of these or any similar factors point toward Ned just seeing Robert as a good friend.

And please don't use the "muscled as a maiden's fantasy" to counterargument this: Robert was exceptionally well-built in his time, which lead to women swooning over him, probably passing over the plain-faced Ned in the process. There's probably a bit of old and buried resentment here, but there's nothing sexual about Ned remembering this.

*rubs hands gleefully*

Apart from:

Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm’s End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden’s fantasy.

there's

Ned loved him for that, for remembering her still after all these years.

And Ned's obvious despair at how much his old friend has deteriorated physically, his disdain when he speaks of Cersei in his very first chapter (The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him.)

Perhaps most damning of all, he spends more time thinking of Robert's beauty than he does of Cat's.

[Frey Pie]

*rubs hands gleefully*

Apart from:

there's

And Ned's obvious despair at how much his old friend has deteriorated physically, his disdain when he speaks of Cersei in his very first chapter (The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him.)

Perhaps most damning of all, he spends more time thinking of Robert's beauty than he does of Cat's.

That will get a lol anyway and a shake of the head :P

[Dondarria]

Sorry, but I absolutely don't get those as evidence of Ned being attracted to Robert.

For the first one (clear-eyed and muscled), Ned is disapproving of indulgence. He himself is in very good shape, and I suspect that he approves of men in good shape because it indicates a strong mind. Robert's going to seed is distressing for him and he's simply remembering the strong man he used to be (and he specifically says maiden's fantasy, not fantasy. He thinks about the way Robert looks because it's a shock - he remembered Robert as a strong, fit, fighting man and instead some drunken fat boor turns up. I think Ned's appalled at the change in his friend, that's all, and that he associates it with a weakness of personality which causes him concern.

Re: him loving Ned - this doesn't strike me as anything other than the grateful love of a friend for remembering his sister well. Surely, if Ned loved Robert in a sexual way, he'd be jealous of Robert's attachment to Lyanna, not grateful to it?

As for Cersei, I always thought that Ned despised her because she was a Lannister, not because she was a woman with Robert. He seems to have the same reaction against all Lannisters.

His relationship with Cat seems to be the quiet affection of long association, and they have too many children not to be having some recreational sex.

[Winter's Knight]

<snip>

The point I am trying to make is that Ned's affection for Robert sound more romantic than JonC's for Rhaegar, see?

Nedbert is more of a personal interpretation of their relationship of mine-like the Holmes/Watson undercurrent.

[Fantôme]

Is it stii a question that JonCon is gay and in love with Rhaegar? Didn't Martin confirm that he was indeed the gay pov in Dance? (Who else could it be anyway?).

[Frey Pie]

Sorry, but I absolutely don't get those as evidence of Ned being attracted to Robert.

For the first one (clear-eyed and muscled), Ned is disapproving of indulgence. He himself is in very good shape, and I suspect that he approves of men in good shape because it indicates a strong mind. Robert's going to seed is distressing for him and he's simply remembering the strong man he used to be (and he specifically says maiden's fantasy, not fantasy. He thinks about the way Robert looks because it's a shock - he remembered Robert as a strong, fit, fighting man and instead some drunken fat boor turns up. I think Ned's appalled at the change in his friend, that's all, and that he associates it with a weakness of personality which causes him concern.

Re: him loving Ned - this doesn't strike me as anything other than the grateful love of a friend for remembering his sister well. Surely, if Ned loved Robert in a sexual way, he'd be jealous of Robert's attachment to Lyanna, not grateful to it?

As for Cersei, I always thought that Ned despised her because she was a Lannister, not because she was a woman with Robert. He seems to have the same reaction against all Lannisters.

His relationship with Cat seems to be the quiet affection of long association, and they have too many children not to be having some recreational sex.

I dont think anyone truly believes it but there have been really funny threads made on it so some people like to mess around with the idea. Come on like ones a serial womaniser and the other has five children-raging homos

[Ser Ragnar]

As long as he leaves the boots on. Leave the boots on!

You can leave your boots on, da da da da da da....