Which of the following Monarchs would you serve?

[Tetrarch42]

Stannis provided Melisandre is out of the picture and Davos is his Hand, this would be ideal.

Otherwise, perhaps Mance Rayder?

[femfatalatron]

Mance all the way! I don't kneel. (And happy independence day, y'all!)

the best commanders manipulate events and their opponents so that victory is effortless and assured.

Dude, Tywin does it (while crapping all over powerless people he doesn't think he's gonna need) and he's a genius.

Dany does it (while crapping all over jerks she doesn't think she's gonna need) and she's a moron.

Totally.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

In fact, many people on these forums who imagine they're smarter than that would likely be very easy prey for such a con job, especially since they think they're smarter than that.

And yet it's never happened. ;)

[Two Towers]

And yet it's never happened. ;)

How many times have you tried to buy Unsullied?

I got robbed the last time I tried

[tze]

Look, the lines on this are pretty much drawn, and I don't think we really need to go down this same old road again. It's all the same collection of nonsense anyway (Daenerys doesn't deserve credit for anything she did, all of her opponents were stupid, etc.), and if you haven't been convinced to let those go by now, it's not likely to happen in this thread either. Needless to say, those same tired arguments aren't going to be any more convincing to me this time than they were the other 300 times, either.

It's true, the argument that Yunkai was led by incredibly inept people, people that even a complete military idiot could have defeated, has never made any sense whatsoever. I mean, we actually got a pretty good look at the generals in charge of the Yunkish army in Quentyn's POV in ADWD. And let me tell you, there was absolutely nothing inept, comical, or absurd about those people's war capabilities. Putting your soldiers on stilts or chaining them together hand and foot are obviously signs of intensely competent military minds. The Dornishmen were appropriately terrified and awe-stricken by the competence of the Yunkish generals, if I recall correctly.

Renly - I think he would have made the best King

I think putting Renly on the throne was a pretty terrible idea, actually. I mean, say he successfully took the Iron Throne and Margaery started producing heirs. What was Renly going to say to those kids (since any king would need at least an heir and a spare) about their status in the royal succession? Renly gaining the throne, not because Joffrey had done anything (yet) unworthy of a king, not because Renly believed he had a better blood claim than anyone else---a complete lack of even the pretense of a justification for his power grab would have set a very dangerous precedent, and would have guaranteed dynastic wars upon Renly's death (and would quite likely have led to dynastic wars in Renly's lifetime---if anyone can just grab the throne simply because they feel like it, then why should the popular and powerful Lord X of Region Y bow to Renly a year from now?). If he has more than one kid, why on earth should the younger be lawfully bound to bow to the elder? Daddy dearest didn't. There would have been doubts about the future succession from the get-go, and war would have been certain.

Renly didn't seem capable of thinking ahead or really planning for the future, and that's a pretty terrible flaw in a king.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

How many times have you tried to buy Unsullied?

I got robbed the last time I tried

Well I only really needed 50, and they only sell them in groups of 100, so the deal caved in early. :(

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Look, the lines on this are pretty much drawn, and I don't think we really need to go down this same old road again. It's all the same collection of nonsense anyway (Daenerys doesn't deserve credit for anything she did, all of her opponents were stupid, etc.), and if you haven't been convinced to let those go by now, it's not likely to happen in this thread either. Needless to say, those same tired arguments aren't going to be any more convincing to me this time than they were the other 300 times, either.

It's quite rude to call the opinions of others nonsense simply because they don't agree with you. No one said that Dany doesn't deserve credit for anything, or that all her opponents were stupid.

Beyond that, we can agree to disagree. :cheers:

Con games always work this way. The best cons make their marks think they (the con artists) are the stupid ones. They also look obvious in hindsight, causing the marks to wonder how they could have been "so stupid."

:agree: Jorah is a great con artist! Still, the Astapori were quite stupid. There was no reason to believe that Drogon would go along with them peacefully, or that Dany would hand him over so willingly.

In fact, many people on these forums who imagine they're smarter than that would likely be very easy prey for such a con job, especially since they think they're smarter than that.

To each their own.

[Dr. Pepper]

... along with deceiving Yunkai, gaining the sellswords, thinking of turning a ship into a battering ram, and on and on.

And yet some of those sellswords have defected and gone back to the other side, Yunkai has declared war on her, she has no ships to protect her city or move her people.....

But this is all off topic. The question was just simply asking which monarch one would serve. Apparently some think that using a slave army to "free slaves" (which isn't something Dany has actually accomplished), using ruthless measures as vengeance and poorly planning for the supply and defense of a city is totally awesome and cool while others think that being charismatic somehow translates to being good with policy and defense. Whatever. To each their own.

[Smokingfinehash]

Stan the Man, absolutely. Nevermind the fact the odds of meeting my demise would be way higher serving him, the other candidates are absolute shit.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

... along with deceiving Yunkai, gaining the sellswords, thinking of turning a ship into a battering ram, and on and on.

This is a classic example of "smart then, stupid now." She needs ships in ADWD, but she doesn't have any because she destroyed them all. She tells Groleo to build them, as if he's a shipwright and not an admiral, and he says, "We don't have any wood, and you destroyed what ships we did have. There's nothing I can do." Rather than accept this, she's a petulant little pill about it, and goes so far as to think that Groleo might be one of her three betrayals just because he can't produce a ship at her beck and call.

Tl;dr: She destroyed her ships to take Meereen not thinking that she might need them later. Poor long-term planning — and, to get back on topic, a good reason why I'd never want Dany as my monarch.

[Howling Mad]

To paraphrase Sir Winston, democracy the worst form of government except of course for all others. All of the monarchs and would be monarchs have problems. At the outset of the war if I had to chose it probably would have been Robb Stark which means I would now be dead. Perhaps an outlaw life would be best.

[Two Towers]

It's time for Westeros to become a Freehold

Until then I'll follow King Robert, I bet he has stories...

[Castel]

I think putting Renly on the throne was a pretty terrible idea, actually. I mean, say he successfully took the Iron Throne and Margaery started producing heirs. What was Renly going to say to those kids (since any king would need at least an heir and a spare) about their status in the royal succession? Renly gaining the throne, not because Joffrey had done anything (yet) unworthy of a king, not because Renly believed he had a better blood claim than anyone else---a complete lack of even the

pretense

of a justification for his power grab would have set a very dangerous precedent, and would have guaranteed dynastic wars upon Renly's death (and would quite likely have led to dynastic wars in Renly's lifetime---if anyone can just grab the throne simply because they feel like it, then why should the popular and powerful Lord X of Region Y bow to Renly a year from now?). If he has more than one kid, why on earth should the younger be lawfully bound to bow to the elder? Daddy dearest didn't. There would have been doubts about the future succession from the get-go, and war would have been certain.

I keep hearing this, and I don't know how it's any different from history in the slightest. It's nothing that a little marginalizing of the second son and elevating the heir wouldn't cause. Well, assuming that they simply don't naturally fall into their positions. Otherwise...this is where quartering becomes useful.

[Kittyhat]

To paraphrase Sir Winston, democracy the worst form of government except of course for all others.

Pity we have no way of knowing since no one on the planet has ever lived in a democracy, despite the word being whored about constantly.

Personally, I think a true democracy would be an utter disaster -- I shudder to think of Joe Average having an equal hand in every decision -- but I'm not wild about corporate oligarchies, either. Perhaps I'm just destined to be a malcontent no matter what. :dunno:

[El Cid]

Renly would be the perfect King because he was charismatic, kind, not insane, etc. These things are the most important for being king (no shit). I feel though he would need a fairly good Hand for the more gritty political work.

I also feel Robb Stark, though young, would be a fantastic choice.

[Castel]

Pity we have no way of knowing since no one on the planet has ever lived in a democracy, despite the word being whored about constantly.

Personally, I think a true democracy would be an utter disaster -- I shudder to think of Joe Average having an equal hand in every decision -- but I'm not wild about corporate oligarchies, either. Perhaps I'm just destined to be a malcontent no matter what. :dunno:

I'm pretty sure a representative democracy counts as a democracy :cool4:

Not that, as far as I can tell, everyone's vote is equal in places like say, America.

[Ser Q]

Renly with Rob as his hand. Renly for his politics and Rob for his military prowess. Obviously this would never happen but both would be decent men to serve under.

[Kittyhat]

I'm pretty sure a representative democracy counts as a democracy :cool4:

Not that, as far as I can tell, everyone's vote is equal in places like say, America.

You mean our lovely corporate oligarchy masquerading as a republic that calls itself a democracy?

Well, I'm sure we're all feeling terribly "represented." I know I am. ;)

[Howling Mad]

It would be chaos; she doesn't abide by a consistent set of laws or method of justice, she makes impulsive decisions, and we'd all starve. No, honestly, I think Dany is probably very down on the list of those I'd want as my monarch.

You may be the rear admiral of the HMS Nedbert <_< but I have to give you props for your position on Daenerys.

[Howling Mad]

I'm pretty sure a representative democracy counts as a democracy :cool4:

Not that, as far as I can tell, everyone's vote is equal in places like say, America.

I thought about adding "representative" to my paraphrase of Churchill but I thought to myself nah no one is going to be that petty. I guess Kittyhat proved me wrong.