Is Jon's "watch" over?

[Death By Selmy]

We all know that Night's Watchmen serve for life, but if Jon dies and is brought back somehow, isn't he free of his oath and able to claim Winterfell honorably if Robb's will/letter were to make it to him?

Seems like a handy "out" for Jon.

Sorry if this has already been discussed!

[Bright Blue Eyes]

No. Why? Because Jon is a Stark, not some law-twisting southerner.

Apart from the fact that he is 99% only wounded instead of dead

[Spartan_MD]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

Sounds like if he is dead and comes back, he's out. He can then get married and have heirs...

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

"It shall not end until my death" suggests that after death, it's over. "For this night and all the nights to come" suggests that a temporary absence of life doesn't change anything. So it's mostly a matter of whether he / his brothers / the author will want him to drop out or not.

[JJtheCrow]

It IS a handy "out" but it IS an "out". Whether he takes it or not is a different story.

[Le.Chevalier.D'Eon]

I agree. It is a "loophole", but may not serve the spirit or intent of the oath.

[MtnLion]

There is another way out of the Night's Watch. That way is by command of the king. Did Robb want Jon to suceed him? If he did he had to command that Jon be excused from the Night's Watch, too.

[Death By Selmy]

There is another way out of the Night's Watch. That way is by command of the king. Did Robb want Jon to suceed him? If he did he had to command that Jon be excused from the Night's Watch, too.

Yes, but Stannis is just as much of a king as Robb was, and Jon wouldn't leave the Night's Watch when Stannis asked/proposed (short of commanded) him to do so. Why would Robb's command be any more honorable of a purpose for Jon to leave the Watch than Stannis'?

I say, only because the circumstances have changed and a loophole had been found?

[The Sleeper]

There is no precedent for that, but on the other hand if a king decalred a member of the Night's Watch released from his vows and ordered his subjects to give him shelter, I don't see what the Night's Watch could do about it.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Nope it end in the grave

[MtnLion]

Yes, but Stannis is just as much of a king as Robb was, and Jon wouldn't leave the Night's Watch when Stannis asked/proposed (short of commanded) him to do so. Why would Robb's command be any more honorable of a purpose for Jon to leave the Watch than Stannis'?

I say, only because the circumstances have changed and a loophole had been found?

Robb is the king in the north, and the Wall is part of the north. Robb had all rights at the time the will was written, and Stannis was flailing with Tywinn and King's Landing in the south. By Robb's actions the north had liberated itself ffrom the south. Or, maybe you are suggesting that we should defer to the winner of that one, Joffrey/Tommen? (Power is a shadow on the wall ...) But, it seems apparent that Robb had to do two things before he could appoint Jon his successor:

1. Free Jon of his vow to the Night's Watch
   
2. Legitimize Jon as a Stark
   

[Death By Selmy]

Robb is the king in the north, and the Wall is part of the north. Robb had all rights at the time the will was written, and Stannis was flailing with Tywinn and King's Landing in the south. By Robb's actions the north had liberated itself ffrom the south. Or, maybe you are suggesting that we should defer to the winner of that one, Joffrey/Tommen? (Power is a shadow on the wall ...) But, it seems apparent that Robb had to do two things before he could appoint Jon his successor:

1. Free Jon of his vow to the Night's Watch
   
2. Legitimize Jon as a Stark
   

Is the wall really "part of the North"? Sure it's located closest to the North, I just always assumed it was it own autonomous region that was only governed by the King on the Iron Throne. The wall owed no fealty or taxes to Winterfell, and it was given the lands around it for all perpetuity.

Also, Robb never held the wall to any extent close to what Stannis had done there, so I think Stannis' rule as a king was stronger while he was at the wall than Robbs ever was there.

Not that any of that matters though, the question I was asking in my last post was why would Jon decline Stannis' offer due to his oaths and personal honor, only to accept Robb's later?

[CrypticWeirwood]

This is clearly a “till death do us part” kind of a thing.

[Brixon]

For Jon to accept Stannis's offer, he would have had to renounce the old gods of the north. This is something that would have been unacceptable by the northern lords, or for any Stark of WF for that matter.

[kg1982]

It's always going to be a sticking point for Jon (and others). I'm thinking that Jon either has to flee the Wall or at the very least is told to leave. I also don't think the Watch survives after the Battle for Dawn. There might be no need for it if the Others are defeated and Westros and the Wildlings come to an understanding.

[qpishaw]

There is another way out of the Night's Watch. That way is by command of the king. Did Robb want Jon to suceed him? If he did he had to command that Jon be excused from the Night's Watch, too.

Just re-read the chapter when Robb wants to name his half-brother, Jon Snow, the heir of Winterfell. (Robb believes all his other siblings(but Sansa ) are dead. Since she is female/ unable to inherit,) Mother Cat has a fit .... We are not told the outcome of this conversation, HOWEVER, we are told a document has been written, sealed, and witnessed.

IMO, this could be an interesting twist, and that KING of the North (Robb) has made it possible for Jon to leave the NW.

I also believe Jon Snow is NOT dead.

[Budj]

I really like the idea of Jon not being dead and someone on their way to the wall to tell Jon about the will...epic.

What would be more epic is if Jon agrees to help Stannis with the condition of recognizing the North as its own kingdom after the exterminate the current rats in WF.and after they successfully place Stannis on the throne. Mayhaps his time in the North allows him some appreciation for how different the cultures are and his respect for Jon Snow would make it an easier thing to give up since he knows he would keep his word and do what's best.

[ckal]

"I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

As long as Jon is alive, his is pledged to the Night's Watch. If he is dead it is over, but if he is brought back he is alive and it starts again. There you go.

To be quite honest, I don't think the creators of the Night's Watch were taking into account men dying and being revived when they were making their vows...

No. Why? Because Jon is a Stark, not some law-twisting southerner.

Apart from the fact that he is 99% only wounded instead of dead

Haha.

[Tagganaro]

I don't believe Jon would use a cheap out such as that. As was said above, technically that might be ok, but in spirit it goes against the oath.

The big way out is gonna be Robb's will when it most likely shows up next book. Important to note that when Jon turned Stannis down, it was not about his oath or anything like that. Jon was unwilling to renounce the Old Gods, which would be akin to renouncing Ghost and Ned. But he wanted everything else- He wants Val as his wife, he wants to be Lord of Winterfell, and he was fine with being legitimized by Stannis. The problem was that pursuant to Melisandre's demands, Jon thought he was going to have to burn down the Weirwood Tree at Winterfell, which he refused to do.

So no, I think Jon will probably go with a legitimization route if anything.

[MtnLion]

Not that any of that matters though, the question I was asking in my last post was why would Jon decline Stannis' offer due to his oaths and personal honor, only to accept Robb's later?

I had no problem answering that question when I asked it of myself when reading. Stannis wanted something in exchange that Jon was not willing to provide. ;) Read it again, it will come clear.