Breaking Bad Discussion II

[drawkcabi]

Or even just thinking it's some kind of drug. It is a mysterious white powder in a vial, after all...

In relation, it's also funny to think of how many times the ricin has been major plot device, and yet has never been successfully utilized on any of its intended victims (unless I'm forgetting something important).

Definitely an interesting possibility.

I've often thought about everytime they've tried to kill someone with the ricin it always did go as planned, I think they are saving the time for it to actually work to be a very BIG deal in the show.

Did anyone else think the camera focusing on the pool via Skyler's viewpoint was making any connection to "the blue" at all?

Before she went in, I wondered if it was some metaphor for this crazy thing they got all caught up in. But once she went in I wasn't so sure and thought that maybe she was just getting lost in the appeal of going in.

I also noticed when Lydia "spotted" the gps on the bottom of cannister and the camera zoomed in on it then all of a sudden we see dripping, I at first thought the cannister was leaking too but then it zooms out and it's the dripping pool water on a towel or clothes or something.

[red snow]

Yeah, I totally expect it to be Walt Jr. that gets it. but that almost seems too um... obvious somehow.

This is my fear as well. I hope if this happens it's with only 1-2 episodes left because if Walt Jr dies it will break my heart a bit and I don't know if I could bear watching more. I'm not sure which would be worse it being Walt's fauly directly or indirectly. I guess indirectly would be the saddest because if Walt were to do so willingly then he'd be an absolute monster. I still don't think he'd go that far, Then again I never thought there'd be a point where him killing skylar seems plausible.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I've been thinking about this, and I'm pretty convinced that Jesse did not actually break up with Andrea.

It's the watch that has me thinking this way. Walt sees it as a symbol of his ability to dominate and manipulate anybody he wants, but the show ends with the watch ominously ticking, reminding the audience that Walt's time at the top is limited and soon he'll be reduced to the circumstances of the season premiere. I think this works better if Walt doesn't understand that the true significance of the watch, that Jesse didn't buy it just because he likes Mr. White, but because he feels guilty about lying to him.

And thinking back on last week's episode, there are a number of suspicious things that come to mind:

1) the fact that Breaking Bad, the show that established where Jesse bought the RV and what happened to Walt's car, won't show us the end of a fairly important relationship, even though it would undoubtedly be a significant moment for Jesse;

2) the fact that we do see a scene of Jesse looking at Andrea pensively, so it's not like they didn't have the screen time to include it; and

3) the fact that Jesse has a very muted reaction when Walt talks right over him giving the news, which is odd if Jesse really did this difficult thing at Walt's prompting but understandable if Jesse is lying and just trying to placate Walt.

[Francis Buck]

I've been thinking about this, and I'm pretty convinced that Jesse did not actually break up with Andrea.

It's the watch that has me thinking this way. Walt sees it as a symbol of his ability to dominate and manipulate anybody he wants, but the show ends with the watch ominously ticking, reminding the audience that Walt's time at the top is limited and soon he'll be reduced to the circumstances of the season premiere. I think this works better if Walt doesn't understand that the true significance of the watch, that Jesse didn't buy it just because he likes Mr. White, but because he feels guilty about lying to him.

And thinking back on last week's episode, there are a number of suspicious things that come to mind:

1) the fact that Breaking Bad, the show that established where Jesse bought the RV and what happened to Walt's car, won't show us the end of a fairly important relationship, even though it would undoubtedly be a significant moment for Jesse;

2) the fact that we do see a scene of Jesse looking at Andrea pensively, so it's not like they didn't have the screen time to include it; and

3) the fact that Jesse has a very muted reaction when Walt talks right over him giving the news, which is odd if Jesse really did this difficult thing at Walt's prompting but understandable if Jesse is lying and just trying to placate Walt.

I speculated about the exact same thing in the previous thread, but your comments about the watch really cast in a new light. I also thought it was suspicious that they ended that relationship offscreen, along with Jesse's strangely nonchalant (and yet also somewhat "eager") way of revealing it to Walt. But now with your ideas on the watch thing...I'm almost convinced.

It also all goes even further to supporting the idea of a Jesse vs Walt showdown at the end of the series.

Apparently there were some fairly mild spoilers in a Rolling Stones interview...I'll post them here, they're really not anything earth shattering, it just sheds a tiny, tiny, bit of light on cold-opener:

It revealed that Walt was specifically "returning from exile"...which is a strange choice of wording. Thus, my most current crackpot; Walt somehow fucks up majorly at the end of this season, be it a combination of Skylar flipping him to the DEA and Jesse finding out about Jane and Brock or what have you, and he is forced to use Saul's "Disappearing Man" to flee from his enemies (Jesse and Mike, if the latter's still alive, as well as Hank). Then, a year later, he returns to "set things straight" with Jesse. Where it goes from there is anybody's guess.

Beyond all of that though, I'm curious on people's input on the cold-opener now that we've seen more of the episodes. Where do ya'll think it's going to take place, episode-wise? Perhaps the most obvious answer is that it takes place in the final episode. But then, we also know that the year-long gap has to happen somewhere...and the most obvious point is between the two halves of season five. If that's the case, then it seems more likely to me that the cold-opener is in fact going to be the first episode of S5B. I kinda hope that's the case, because it means we're in for some crazy ass shit in those last eight episodes.

Goddamn I love this show.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Do we know for sure one way or the other if we're getting Gus flashback scenes?

I don't think Esposito's been cast for the season. And from what I can remember, there hasn't been a single flashback in the entire show. Just vague flashes of the future

[Francis Buck]

I don't think Esposito's been cast for the season. And from what I can remember, there hasn't been a single flashback in the entire show. Just vague flashes of the future

There's been quite a few flashbacks, dude. The one where Hector kills Gus's "brother", the one where Hector reprimands the Twins as children...um, let's see...there's another flashback in season one where we see Walt and his girlfriend (the one who later married his Gray Matter associate). I seem to remember a flashback involving Walt and Sky with a baby Walt Jr. buying their current house.

I don't know, there's probably more, but there have certainly been a number of them for sure.

[mythsandstuff]

I don't think Esposito's been cast for the season. And from what I can remember, there hasn't been a single flashback in the entire show. Just vague flashes of the future

Gus had a flashback last season to when the original meth partner was killed, and we saw hippie Walt in flashback in the first season. /pedant

Esposito's probably pretty busy, though, between Revolution and Once Upon a Time. I loved him as Gus, but I don't see how he fits in this season.

[Jabronius Maximus]

There's been quite a few flashbacks, dude. The one where Hector kills Gus's "brother", the one where Hector reprimands the Twins as children...um, let's see...there's another flashback in season one where we see Walt and his girlfriend (the one who later married his Gray Matter associate). I seem to remember a flashback involving Walt and Sky with a baby Walt Jr. buying their current house.

I don't know, there's probably more, but there have certainly been a number of them for sure.

Oops my bad man what I meant was that there were no flashbacks of an event that previously occurred in the show (ie in season 4 we don't see a flashback to something in season 1). Gus would fall into that category.

Besides, everywhere I've checked doesn't list Espo in the season 5 cast, so it's unlikely. But Gus easily could've had an evil messed up junkie of a twin... :devil:

[delete this account pls]

Walt killing Skylar seems almost too obvious, doesn't it. He could plausibly stage it as a suicide, after her pool incident, he has the ricin cigarette, and Skylar is now smoking like a chimney. And we have that flash-forward, Walt morosely making the bacon birthday number at the Dennys, something Skylar does for him.

Oops my bad man what I meant was that there were no flashbacks of an event that previously occurred in the show (ie in season 4 we don't see a flashback to something in season 1). Gus would fall into that category.

Oh god, I hate myself for doing this but I'm going to have to "Um actually" you....

Um actually there was a flashback to an earlier event in the show. There was a cold open late in season 2 (I think?) that showed how Jesse acquired the RV.

But this is beside the point, I agree we won't be getting any more Gus flashbacks.

[TrackerNeil]

Harry the Heir and I were discussing this via email, and I will now take the topic public.

I think Skylar showed real courage in last week's episode. The hardest and most honest thing one can do is to be honest with oneself, and that's what she did. She never tried to duck moral responsibility for the things she's done; in fact, it's Walt who attempted to paper over the death and destruction he causes by saying that because his stated motivation is protecting his family, everything is OK. Skylar knows her hands are red to the elbow, and that the things she's done are not the acts of a good person. Walt, on the other hand, still clings to the delusion that he can kill people and ruin the lives of others and still somehow come out the other side clean.

None of that, of course, excuses Skylar, but it tells you that she still remembers what it was like to be empathetic and well intentioned. Walt's put all that behind him for good, I'm afraid, as you can see when Mike and Jesse argue over killing Lydia. Jesse's objections are moral, although he cloaks them in pragmatism, whereas Walt's really are pragmatic. He just won't tolerate any disruption to his empire business, and if that means sparing Lydia, then that's what it means.

He really is the devil.

[Independent George]

The tough part of falling behind in my viewing is I have to click through ten pages of these threads before I can catch up with the discussion.

Anyway, latecomer that I am, I don't have much to add except that Skyler finally did what I was waiting for Carmella Soprano to do for years: face her own mistakes and take responsibility. In that one moment, I went from passively disliking her to admiring her. She's completely trapped, and in a hopeless situation, but the fact that (1) she took responsibility, and (2) is entirely focused on protecting her children no matter the cost to herself more than redeems her in my eyes. No matter what mistakes she makes going forward, I can now accept that unlike Walt, she really is doing it for her family.

Mike had it completely right - Walt is a ticking time bomb, as the cars showed. He's not smart enough to survive as a drug lord; he's so driven by ego and the need for people to look up to him that he's unwilling to keep his head down. Gus died when he made it personal and decided to kill his nemesis in person instead of distancing himself as a professional would. Walt wants all of the wealth & power & privilege Gus earned over twenty years, but is too lazy and reckless to understand all of the little things involved in getting there.

Walt started out with the same motivations as Mike: leaving behind a nest egg to take care of his family once he is gone. Mike probably knows it's only a matter of time before the Feds get to him; his first motivation is just enough cash to leave his granddaughter in a comfortable spot; if he has enough left at the end to bug out and/or take care of his partners, that's just a bonus. At this point, though, Walt is trying to build what was lost to him when he left Grey Matter - the adulation of his peers. So much so that he's willing to take unnecessary risks and draw unwarranted attention to himself. Just as with his drunken conversation with Hank last season, Walt's ego is going to be his downfall.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

I love how Gilligan had the balls to turn a relateable hero into a full fledged villain. We all thought that breaking bad meant turning into a bad ass, we've all started to realize that it actually means turning into an evil, egomaniacal psychopath. (Has a TV show ever done that before, apart maybe from the Shield to some extent?) Judging by the comments section of the avclub review some viewers are in denial (still calling Skyler a bitch) and will soon feel cheated by the direction the show has clearly taken.

This. I came to read this thread after reading through posts on a popular Turkish site after last nights episode. %99 of users in that site *still* hate Skyler, call her a bitch, a slut, a whiner..I was stunned by this, thought "am I the only one seeing writers are clearly on Skyler's side here?" And so should we to be honest, he has gone evil. Yet most viewers around me ( mostly man) just loves to call Walt "the man" " the dude" "the king" etc. just because they are used to, and hopefully will be bitch-slapped hard when the storm we suspect coming shakes everything they think.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I think it's funny that Walter White, IMO easily the least likable anti-hero in cable drama (more so than Tony Soprano, who otherwise would hold the crown), gets that kind of love. Not just because he's a monster, although Vince Gilligan has been consistently calling him a monster for a long time. But also because the show frequently makes fun of him, his pathetic attempts at rationalization, his boundless insecurity/megalomania, his pettiness, his self-delusion... I don't see how people can love Walter and hate Skylar without being blinded by serious gender issues, I really don't. It's like finding out that people are rooting for George Costanza, or that they think that GOB Bluth is a bad-ass.

And speaking of GOB Bluth, I've just become aware of the Tumblr page Breaking Development. I think this is my favorite mash-up.

[Morpheus]

Dean Norris let slip a worrying tidbit in an NPR interview

on Holly

"…Let me just say that there is a even more chilling scene involving that baby later on this season."

[Jabronius Maximus]

Dean Norris let slip a worrying tidbit in an NPR interview

on Holly

"…Let me just say that there is a even more chilling scene involving that baby later on this season."

Oh boy...not good...I have a very bad feeling...

[Morpheus]

I feel like we had to know this was coming. What better way to change people's feelings completely and totally regarding Walt if something he does directly impacts the death of a baby?

Sure, you could see it coming, it is almost too easy as far as manipulating the audience's emotions against Walt.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

But no one can make excuses for a baby's death.

I would like to believe that that was true.

[Morpheus]

I would like to believe that that was true.

That baby is a total bitch, the way it does nothing all day while Walt is out being awesome for a living. It barely ever says a word to him and is just using him for his money. Does it ever thank the man who protects this family? Way to take after mom, baby. :devil: :devil: :devil:

[Arbor Gold]

Walt killing Skylar seems almost too obvious, doesn't it. He could plausibly stage it as a suicide, after her pool incident, he has the ricin cigarette, and Skylar is now smoking like a chimney.

I'm pretty sure the ricin is no longer in cigarette form, it's just in the vial now.

[Francis Buck]

Honestly, some people are just never going to stop rooting for Walt. As long as Walt can rationalize it in his head, the people who root for him will rationalize it in their head.

I mean there were people who thought Tony Soprano was 100% justified in everything he did, at all times, and that everyone around them were the "bad guys" or in the wrong. This baffled me, especially during the last nine episodes (season 6B), when he basically reached the peak of corruption and evil. But when I still saw people rooting for (and justifying) him all the way up to the finale, I realized it was just a strange phenomenon of the character/audience experience. I'd almost like to write an essay on it, if I wasn't so busy being lazy (and writing fiction).