King of Thorns by Mark Lawrence (SPOILERS ALERT)

[Mark Lawrence]

I just finished, minutes ago...FABULOUS! Wow. What a great read.

Mark, I was on the edge of my seat.

I was confused at times, but I think you tied it all up very well at the end. I also hope Katherine's not dead!

I can't wait for the next (last) book, although I haz a sad that it'll be the last one. It's funny; I really didn't care that much for Prince of Thorns the first time I read it. On re-read, I loved it. And King of Thorns? Man, I was engrossed from the first word to the last.

Thanks so much!

Good to hear! Actually I often get messages from people who improved their opinion about Prince on a second read. I think books with a definite 'voice' have great potential for striking someone wrongly on one day and 'catching' on another. I mention the phenomenum here http://www.dreyslibrary.com/2012/07/18/julys-featured-author-marks-fluid-top-fantasy/

It looks like the wagons are circling into two camps - those who liked Prince best, and those who like King best. Hopefully the last book will be the best of the lot.

[PhoenixFlame]

Just finished King of Thorns today. LOVED it! Jorg revealing the gun to Egan was just 20 kinds of awesome. I started laughing and was very glad I no longer have roommates. I too hope Katherine isn't dead, but I have to say I really liked Miana. I hope she and Jorg patch things up.

Quick question! Is that ring Jorg has connected to a satellite or something? It seemed like it could jump to something like a security camera, but I wasn't entirely sure. I really love the touches of our world--the "No Overnight Parking" sign made me chuckle. Is Tall Castle basically a skyscraper with added battlements?

But oh...awesome scene for how much it affected me, but awful for how shitty I felt, was the part with Olidan and Jorg's dog. Humans getting tortured and murdered...eh, whatevs. If it's animals I turn into a woobie. Poor Justice!

[Ahmrogar]

"Three Steps Outside"

"Three in the Carriage"

"Three Women that will love you"

"Three brothers lost on your journey"

Any idea what that means?

I'm pretty sure we, at least, have an idea of all of these.

"Three Steps Outside"

Jorg mentions this once or twice, he feels he is 'three steps outside" the normal way people see the world due to three events in his life.

I don't remember exactly what three events they are, but I am pretty sure it's one step for the briar thorns, one step for the necromancer heart and not quite so sure, but one step for Justice.

"Three in the Carriage"

His mother, Willian and him, Jorg, on the day when he is thrown into the hook briar, which is one of the turning points in his life.

"Three Women that will love you"

I'm not sure about that. If that's for these two books, it'd be Katherine, Miana and his mother. I, personally, think there's probably another one coming though.

"Three brothers lost on your journey"

Two answers.

One is William, Degran and Egan. Three literal (by law or blood) brothers he lost on his journey.

The other is Sim, Row and Gog, his three road-brothers he loses on the road from Renar to Morrow.

In any case, I really enjoyed this book.

I don't generally like the 'hey, this is our Earth' stories but this has been a pleasant difference.

There are some things, like the fact that the Tall Castle was a parking block, that I...well I won't say I knew, but that I had a feeling about.

I did catch on about halfway through KoT that they weren't talking about the Prince of Arrow as anything but the Prince, they never said Orrin, or Egan. Which sent up one bell.

Moreoever, especially in Katheine's later notes, I felt that Egan was going to do something. I just thought it'd happen in the 'present' not that it already had done so.

It was a pretty satisfying reveal, but nonetheless I feel it had less depth as Orrin and Jorg was set up earlier on and I would have found it much more satisfying to have them finish it. Especially as it's stated several times that Orrin was a good person with the strength and ability to achieve his goals...when, really, he wasn't.

But I guess part of the point was that Jorg as he was then would have surrendered to Orrin, because he knew he'd be a better Emperor?

The only other, minor, criticisms I had were that...

the story is very similar to Prince of Thorns. The same basic details with him having a hole in his memory, with the past and the present being told at the same time, the showdown with Chella, the final big fight being won by Builder technology and the 'fight' between Galen and Jorg felt a lot like the 'fight' between Egan and Jorg.

The last one felt a bit heavy as well, because Jorg has been playing tricks all day, and we know from the first book that it's not like he needed a gun to play another one, I'm surprised that Egan bothered to meet with him.

But these are all pretty forgivable, and the characters, worldbuilding and story and dialogue continue to be very compelling. I especially like the different flavors of magic.

[peterbound]

I dug it. I had a hard time getting into the prince of thorns when i first bought it a while ago, but all of Mark's interaction on the board prompted me pick it back up.

Glad i did. I blew through both the books in about three days. Great work Mark! I'm glad it came out so well. The world is well crafted, and i freaking love the characters.

[Mark Lawrence]

Just finished King of Thorns today. LOVED it! Jorg revealing the gun to Egan was just 20 kinds of awesome. I started laughing and was very glad I no longer have roommates. I too hope Katherine isn't dead, but I have to say I really liked Miana. I hope she and Jorg patch things up.

Quick question! Is that ring Jorg has connected to a satellite or something? It seemed like it could jump to something like a security camera, but I wasn't entirely sure. I really love the touches of our world--the "No Overnight Parking" sign made me chuckle. Is Tall Castle basically a skyscraper with added battlements?

But oh...awesome scene for how much it affected me, but awful for how shitty I felt, was the part with Olidan and Jorg's dog. Humans getting tortured and murdered...eh, whatevs. If it's animals I turn into a woobie. Poor Justice!

Good to hear it went down well!

On the owner's manual for 'the One Ring ' it says '...will satisfy your real-time imaging requirements using any available networked assets'

& yes, the Tall Castle is the stump & partly exposed foundations of a highrise block with later additions.

& rest assured the moving scenes move me too!

[Mark Lawrence]

I dug it. I had a hard time getting into the prince of thorns when i first bought it a while ago, but all of Mark's interaction on the board prompted me pick it back up.

Glad i did. I blew through both the books in about three days. Great work Mark! I'm glad it came out so well. The world is well crafted, and i freaking love the characters.

Score! :) This does seem to be a repeating theme of late, people either re-reading or re-trying and changing their opinions.

A large part of anyone's reaction to a book is the mindset they go in with, and that can change month to month or day to day. I've tried and hated fantasy by some very big names, but I've not 'vented' about it, and one good reason for that is that if I gave them another try (as I will some day) I may find myself liking them. It's happened many times before.

[Billy Quizboy]

Ha! He shot him! That was just BRILLIANT.

[red snow]

Can't read any of the thread as I still haven't finished (been travelling around a lot and don't want to damage the signed copy). Anyway, my confusion from the start of the book has been clarified now. It took a while to get used to the split narrative of two time-frames although to be fair the chapters in the past do start with "four years earlier" so it's probably me being an idiot more than anything.

Really enjoying it so far and it's good to see that Jorg is still a devious little shit and pretty much the anti-kvothe.

[polishgenius]

This book is amazing. It's all this brutality and viciousness and dark humour and yet it's delivered in genuinely beautiful prose. It's like being punched in the face by Audrey Hepburn.

Also, character-wise Jorg felt more complex to me - where in the first he was just a complete vicious bastard, here he's... well, he's still that but he's relatable and understandable and softened by more moments of real humanity. And yet his bad acts come off as if anything even worse because now we know that he does know what good is.

More references to modern culture, which clarified exactly when we stand and who the Builders were- the first book left it uncertain whether it was an alternate timeline where aliens interfered somewhere before modern culture, but this makes it clear that no, I was wrong. I laughed out loud at the slightly meta Rolling Stones reference...

I hate to do this to Mr. Lawrence in light of the constant comparison to Abercrombie who he's never read, but I found this an interesting comparison to Richard Morgan's Land Fit for Heroes - (spoiler tagging for anyone who's not read the second book of the latter)

especially in how two anti-heroic fantasists came, completely independently, to such a similar explanation for post-Apocalyptic fantasy. I mean overall the presentation of the results is very different, but both of them even went so far as to use Schroedinger's Cat as an illustration.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

More references to modern culture, which clarified exactly when we stand and who the Builders were- the first book left it uncertain whether it was an alternate timeline where aliens interfered somewhere before modern culture, but this makes it clear that no, I was wrong. I laughed out loud at the slightly meta Rolling Stones reference...

Are you talking about the American Pie reference, because that was Don Mclean, or was there a reference I missed?

[polishgenius]

Are you talking about the American Pie reference, because that was Don Mclean, or was there a reference I missed?

Not that. In one of the box-flashbacks there's an exchange between him and Katherine that utilises Rolling Stones lyrics. It's chapter 27 but I won't quote, I thought it was great and don't want to ruin the moment for anyone...

[Emo Jon Snow]

I love these books. My biggest problem was I gave myself 6 days to re-read Prince of Thorns but I ended up finishing in 3 days and had to sit and wait patiently for King of Thorns.

I want to say how much better it is than Prince of Thorns, but that feels like a backhanded compliment, Prince of Thorns was so damn awesome, but King is on a whole new level. I think that the more fucked up shit in a book the better. There is also some really deep material in this book, sometimes I would just have to pause and reflect on life because Mark Lawrence hits a nerve.

Definitely going to re-read when the paperback hits shelves.

[Mark Lawrence]

I hate to do this to Mr. Lawrence in light of the constant comparison to Abercrombie who he's never read, but I found this an interesting comparison to Richard Morgan's Land Fit for Heroes - (spoiler tagging for anyone who's not read the second book of the latter)

especially in how two anti-heroic fantasists came, completely independently, to such a similar explanation for post-Apocalyptic fantasy. I mean overall the presentation of the results is very different, but both of them even went so far as to use Schroedinger's Cat as an illustration.

Heh, not read Morgan either! I am told though that Saberhagen (who I've also not read & hadn't even heard of) did something similar decades ago.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Not that. In one of the box-flashbacks there's an exchange between him and Katherine that utilises Rolling Stones lyrics. It's chapter 27 but I won't quote, I thought it was great and don't want to ruin the moment for anyone...

I only found one line. Maybe i don't know the stones as well as I'd thought.

[AUyushu]

I only found one line. Maybe i don't know the stones as well as I'd thought.

It's just two lines really. One comment from her, and his response. From the same song. And his part is more paraphrasing.

[JJ Rosso]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. Love ASOIAF and also Prince/King of Thorns. i thought King was a better book but only just. Does anyone else on here think that SPOILERS .... Jorg getting kicked by the horse in Prince thus escaping Corions spell was really shit? One of the best books ive read, so refreshing and then that. Please enlighten me how this dumb luck can be considered, i guess, believable. Any thoughts? I really thought we would get some 'higher power' explanation in King to justify its sillyness.

[JJ Rosso]

Also is Steven Erikson hard to read or is it just me? Loved his first book but had to reread whole chapters to understand whats goin on

[Mark Lawrence]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. Love ASOIAF and also Prince/King of Thorns. i thought King was a better book but only just. Does anyone else on here think that SPOILERS .... Jorg getting kicked by the horse in Prince thus escaping Corions spell was really shit? One of the best books ive read, so refreshing and then that. Please enlighten me how this dumb luck can be considered, i guess, believable. Any thoughts? I really thought we would get some 'higher power' explanation in King to justify its sillyness.

Dumb luck is, in my experience, a major constituent of most people's lives, hand in hand with dumb misfortune. It's certainly played more of a role in my own existence than intervention from 'higher powers' and is a more plausible (believeable) explanation for much that goes on.

I heard yesterday that someone won the lottery. Staggering odds against it, and yet somehow I can force myself to believe it happened. And being as it's more interesting than all those other people not winning, perhaps someone will write a book about it :)

[JJ Rosso]

Ok thats fine. Dumb Luck it is then. Thanks for replying. Cant wait for the next book

[JJ Rosso]

Actually getting kicked by the horse reminded me of heaps of other stories where the hero is saved by a random event that seems to come from no where and its the only scene that is cliche in the book imo. Considering how i love that Jorg isnt the hero really. More like Michael Corleone is a hero.