The Usurper's Dogs Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. While I have no vested interest in anyone being outed, in a famous setting or otherwise, I think it's pretty clear that Loras and Renly were lovers. Margery is a maiden still, Renly was always very concerned about clothes beyond what is typical of hetero men in that culture, Loras got all the honors (led the van against Stannis, first amongst the Rainbow guard, etc). Loras stayed behind to help Renly pray when Catelyn departed for the sept on the eve of his death. Stannis knew of his brother's homosexuality, when he said that Margery was like to stay a maiden in his bed. Loras went berserk when Renly died. It was probably the worst kept secret in King's Landing. NOt to dredge up arguments or to state something already stated elsewhere, but just to say this is an open and shut case. :cool: and have you noticed that i've been starting off every new page lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. GRRM has said he intended them to be gay. It is generally accepted they were lovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Something that just occurred to me about the Tower of Joy - why did the Kingsguard have to fight to the death to stop Ned getting there? It's not like he was coming to kill his sister, just rescue her, and surely the Kingsguard would have more honour than to imprison girls in towers... not that I think R+L=J is in any doubt, but this looks like more evidence in favour of it, as protecting the heir to the throne would be much more worth dying for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. It's not crackpot. It is commonly accepted on these boards that Renly and Loras were gay. There is evidence all over the books. Didn't Jaime say to Loras at one point, "Put up your sword or I'll stick it some place that Renly never found!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Jon Snow Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Actually he said "he would stick it so far.. even Renly wouldn't find it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessMan Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Oh my lord, this is making me want to read the next book so bad... I have a couple of questions that I'd like to see answered, and I hope that they will be! 1. I know it's been mentioned before. But, where is Tysha? If she's one of the courtesans in Braavos, that would be rad. I don't have any little theories of my own except for that one. 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. GRRM certainly dances around the sexuality of both of those characters. Back on the Valonqar, Ser Loras is the youngest son and also is described as Margaery's youngest brother, which is misleading. He is older than Margaery, see AFfC p.182. "Ser Loras was a year older than his sister...". I would agree with the idea that Jaime is the valonqar, I couldn't find the reference that mentions Cersei being born first, but I due remember the quote about being absent a penis depriving her of Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Dictator Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Jamie is Cersei's little brother too. She was born first, which she laments at some other point when bitching about being female. Yep. I believe most of those candidates for the valonqar have been posited at some point or other (and more besides), but the smart money is on Jaime, her junior by a few seconds. They entered the world together, and they'll leave it the same way. And yep. It is Jaime. And I am Hunter S. Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Oh my lord, this is making me want to read the next book so bad... I have a couple of questions that I'd like to see answered, and I hope that they will be! 1. I know it's been mentioned before. But, where is Tysha? If she's one of the courtesans in Braavos, that would be rad. I don't have any little theories of my own except for that one.She went where whores go. 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. They were obviously very close. Lovers? I dunno. But there was certainly a very intense friendship. I think Stannis' comment about Margaery remaining a virgin in Renly's bed is more damning than Loras' reaction to Sansa's remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Dictator Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 She went where whores go. They were obviously very close. Lovers? I dunno. But there was certainly a very intense friendship. I think Stannis' comment about Margaery remaining a virgin in Renly's bed is more damning than Loras' reaction to Sansa's remarks. ' GRRM has stated that they are gay. No more arguing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecayingExponentials Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have an unanswered question: Who was the first faceless man that gave the gift of death to the slaves in the mines of Valyria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have an unanswered question: Who was the first faceless man that gave the gift of death to the slaves in the mines of Valyria? Baby Aegon Targaryen, of course! Varys bundled the child into a 1985 Delorean with a Flux Capacitor right before the siege of King's Landing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybroleach Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 2. Ok, it's old, but I really want to know if Renly and Loras were lovers. Because they seem really adorable, and to have a same sex relationship outed in an extremely popular book would make me very happy. Plus I picked up on that little catch in Loras' voice all on my own, and partly came to this messageboard to see if anybody else shared my crackpot idea. I'm attached to my theory. Quite wondering they're querer than a 3 dollar bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecayingExponentials Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Baby Aegon Targaryen, of course! Varys bundled the child into a 1985 Delorean with a Flux Capacitor right before the siege of King's Landing... LOL, with the strings some of the people in ASoIaF are able to pull, I wouldn't doubt that Varys could pull something like that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 ' GRRM has stated that they are gay. No more arguing about it. He did? I was under the impression that it's pretty obvious subtext, and while Martin isn't about to insert "Loras and Renly were teh gay buttsex lol1111" it could have been stated more plainly later in the books. I hadn't heard that he had stated they were lovers. Ok, well, so at least one question is answered, I guess I got my wish! Thank you, people on the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have an unanswered question: Who was the first faceless man that gave the gift of death to the slaves in the mines of Valyria? does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythorne Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 My questions in addition to the ones mentioned herein Is Mance's horn or the horn from the Fist of the First Men the real Horn of Winter, or is it as of yet undiscovered? (I personally think it is the one from the Fist, and not Mance's). What is the full text of the Prince that was Promised prophecy? Who is the 'hero reborn from the sea' that Melisandre mentions? (She thinks it is Stannis, but for some reason I think this refers to Davos Seaworth or Aeron Damphair) I also think that Margaery lost her maidenhead from riding horses (that's mentioned in aFfC that such things aren't all uncommon) and didn't actually do the hibbity-jib with anyone, and that what we heard about Dragonstone isn't exactly the whole story. It wouldn't surprise me if most of the information coming into Kings Landing towards the end was horribly inaccurate - it would reflect that without Varys, the whispers aren't as loud and the general degradation of things under Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Dictator Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 He did? I was under the impression that it's pretty obvious subtext, and while Martin isn't about to insert "Loras and Renly were teh gay buttsex lol1111" it could have been stated more plainly later in the books. I hadn't heard that he had stated they were lovers. Ok, well, so at least one question is answered, I guess I got my wish! Thank you, people on the boards. It's in So Spake Martin to the best of my recollection... He states that he intended Loras and Renly to be gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 He did? I was under the impression that it's pretty obvious subtext, and while Martin isn't about to insert "Loras and Renly were teh gay buttsex lol1111" it could have been stated more plainly later in the books. I hadn't heard that he had stated they were lovers. Ran knew about it first, because he's Ran, but I know that George finally confessed to them being gay at a con in Chicago in May of 2005 (To Be CONtinued). I don't think I saved my notes, but he most certainly did (with an amused and exhausted sigh that said "Fine, you guys win this one.") confirm that Loras and Renly are gay. And as a side note, he explained that the Rainbow Guard isn't meant to be a tie-in to the real-world symbol of the rainbow for support of the homosexual lifestyle. It's a seven-parts-to-the-whole kind of symbol, the way that Irish Catholics use/used the shamrock as a symbol of the holy trinity. One of the guys from Fantasy Flight Games brought up the whole Loras and Renly thing when talking about the card game, and I said "Knight o' Pansies and the Rainbow Guard? I'm convinced!" Then he explained about the rainbow symbolism and finally admitted publically to Loras and Renly's relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Who is the 'hero reborn from the sea' that Melisandre mentions? (She thinks it is Stannis, but for some reason I think this refers to Davos Seaworth or Aeron Damphair)It's Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Something that just occurred to me about the Tower of Joy - why did the Kingsguard have to fight to the death to stop Ned getting there? It's not like he was coming to kill his sister, just rescue her, and surely the Kingsguard would have more honour than to imprison girls in towers... not that I think R+L=J is in any doubt, but this looks like more evidence in favour of it, as protecting the heir to the throne would be much more worth dying for... I don't think the N+A=J'ers have been able to explain their presence away. It's assumed by the R+L=J'ers that the KG were there to protect the child that was being born, not Lyanna. The KG wouldn't have known that Eddard Stark, who had the reputation as a cold man, would actually foster the child. It is a good question that many of us wonder about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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