True_lord_of_york Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It was def Ned who "dishonored" ashara. People think it was Brandon just because of that one word the person who we see talking about it is barristan Selmy who is super honorable. The reason why it's "stark" and dishonor is because one barristan loved the girl and she wanted Ned and they banged without being married which is super dishonorable; especially for someone like barristan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned's Epic Beard Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How the hell can any one say that brandon made an stupid decision when it was a direct result of the stupidest decision: Lyanna's abduction by Rheagar? Any brother would make the same decision if his sister is being raped. The real moron is Rheagar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 also in the KotLT story we read, its clear that Brandon asked Ashara to dance on behalf of Ned, who was shy. I'm sorry, no matter how terrible of a person you think Brandon is based on him having slept with Barbrey Ryswell and a bunch of smallfolk girls in the Rills and Barrowton, but Ned doesn't feel any kind of anger or resentment towards Brandon, which he would if his older brother asked a girl out for him and then banged her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How the hell can any one say that brandon made an stupid decision when it was a direct result of the stupidest decision: Lyanna's abduction by Rheagar? Any brother would make the same decision if his sister is being raped. The real moron is Rheagar.Yep. A lot of people on this board being very judgmental towards someone in a situation they have never had to deal with except as a reader who knows that Lyanna went willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruella Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Ned doesn't feel any kind of anger or resentment towards Brandon, which he would if his older brother asked a girl out for him and then banged her.He could be mollified by the knowledge that his brother strangled himself to death while watching their father burned. Ned is forgiving person overall, and THAT kind of thing would satisfy most vengenful one.Also, just because you like some older chick enough to want a dance with her, doesn't mean you call dibs on her forevermore. An idea that dancing with somebody's little brother mean you're forever banned from relationship with this person is a little creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 He could be mollified by the knowledge that his brother strangled himself to death while watching their father burned. Ned is forgiving person overall, and THAT kind of thing would satisfy most vengenful one.Also, just because you like some older chick enough to want a dance with her, doesn't mean you call dibs on her forevermore. An idea that dancing with somebody's little brother mean you're forever banned from relationship with this person is a little creepy.With your older brother, I think yeah once you call dibs you've called dibs. Especially when your brother is Brandon Stark who gets whatever girl he wants all the time any way. Brandon hooking up with Ashara would have created a huge rift. I don't think anyone and especially not me, said that having one dance=no way to date Brandon. What I said, instead, was that given that Ned obviously nursed a pretty big crush on Ashara, to the point where Brandon went and basically said "hey my brother is super shy but he'd love to dance with you", and for Brandon to go and sleep with her afterwards would very much piss Ned off. Even if he is a forgiving person (really? I would say "slow to anger" not "forgiving"), he'd still would have mentioned it in his POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponys123 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 No I cannot see him as a douchebag. He was a Casanova, hot blooded, confident. Long post short he was a Knight templar/big brotherTo most internet "nice guys" (read: submissive little fucks who spill their bile of resentment and sexual frustration on the internet), that's well within the definition of douchebag.Personally, I just see that as typical behaviour exhibited by socially dominant males, perfectly acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_Patreck Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 A wild "internet tough guy" appears.>BattleIgnoreAbout Brandon, he looks too similar to Robert, for me. And that reads "unlikable". And that reads "douche", which is nothing but a subjective impression of worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yeah, a lot of theories go on about what a bastard Brandon Stark was and he is even accused of rape by fandom. (Barbrey) First things first, that is ridiculous, because Barbrey was in love with Brandon and more than willing to give herself to him. As for Ashara Dayne. We know oh so little of Ashara. I don't see any reason to blame her supposed death (Lemore=Ashara theory...?) on Brandon Stark. He did one unwise thing in life that is to go to King's Landing and start shouting for the crown prince to come out and die. That was obviously an impulsive and hardly considered challenge, though I'm sure Brandon would have insisted on dueling Rhaeger, had Rhaegar been there. I also think he would have lost against him, but that's really just a personal opinion, based entirely on the fact I have a bigger crush for Rhaegar than for Brandon. All in all, I think Brandon was great. As for the Rhaegar hate, again, the only unwise thing Rhaegar ever did was running off/abducting (I tend to believe it was running off, since you don't clutch the token of somebody on your deathbed, who abducted and raped you previously) Lyanna. And going on about his wife... the Martells hold no grudge against the Starks (the family of the woman Rhaegar ran off with), so I don't see why fans have to. Obviously it wasn't a nice/right/honorable thing to do, but please, people, there is not a single character in ASOIAF who never made a mistake. As for raving about Lyanna's age: since women in ASOIAF world are usually married off by the time they turn 16, Lyanna was not a oh-too-young-teen to fall in love with, just simply a young woman. It could have been Catelyn Tully or anybody. They were the same age. As for her engagement - engagement is not marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 A wild "internet tough guy" appears.>BattleIgnoreAbout Brandon, he looks too similar to Robert, for me. And that reads "unlikable". And that reads "douche", which is nothing but a subjective impression of worth.The highlighted words explain your whole post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 To most internet "nice guys" (read: submissive little fucks who spill their bile of resentment and sexual frustration on the internet), that's well within the definition of douchebag.Personally, I just see that as typical behaviour exhibited by socially dominant males, perfectly acceptable.Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 To most internet "nice guys" (read: submissive little fucks who spill their bile of resentment and sexual frustration on the internet), that's well within the definition of douchebag.Personally, I just see that as typical behaviour exhibited by socially dominant males, perfectly acceptable. I miss the like button so much...I cannot understand why Brandon can be considered a douche... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponys123 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 A wild "internet tough guy" appears.>BattleIgnoreAbout Brandon, he looks too similar to Robert, for me. And that reads "unlikable". And that reads "douche", which is nothing but a subjective impression of worth.Oh, I never claimed to be tough. But what I see is that you aspire for some sort of moral authority, which you don't have, by categorizing characters (and probably people alike) in completely arbitrary categories. I smell a hurt butt, judging by the tone of your reply and the lack of actual "battle" with what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I miss the like button so much...I cannot understand why Brandon can be considered a douche...Well, he seemed to treat women rather the same as Robert. He liked them very much at the very, very least. Some people call that douchebaggery, which I can understand. However, to me, he's like a Brother-I'd-Like-To-Have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Well, he seemed to treat women rather the same as Robert. He liked them very much at the very, very least. Some people call that douchebaggery, which I can understand.However, to me, he's like a Brother-I'd-Like-To-Have.Robert would wine and dine women and then forget they existed. Brandon appears to have actually had a relationship with Barbrey Ryswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yep. A lot of people on this board being very judgmental towards someone in a situation they have never had to deal with except as a reader who knows that Lyanna went willingly.But, but, Rhaegar! Crown Prince! Good man! And stuff.I reckon that it was a stupid action of Brandon, because it was a stupid action, but a completely understandable one, one that is worthy of my respect and affection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Robert would wine and dine women and then forget they existed. Brandon appears to have actually had a relationship with Barbrey Ryswell.Oh I know. But he was rather easy, or so I think. GRRM even said there might be some Brandon-bastards running around. ;) But still, I usually don't understand the criticism he gets for wanting his sister back, and demanding that in the right place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Well, he seemed to treat women rather the same as Robert. He liked them very much at the very, very least. Some people call that douchebaggery, which I can understand.However, to me, he's like a Brother-I'd-Like-To-Have.But we only know about one -Dustin- and they seemed to have a closer relationship.Not to mention that he was single when he had that relationship unlike someone else who kidnapped-eloped a teen and was married... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 But, but, Rhaegar! Crown Prince! Good man! And stuff.I reckon that it was a stupid action of Brandon, because it was a stupid action, but a completely understandable one, one that is worthy of my respect and affection.Definitely. My sister is older than me, but I imagine if someone kidnapped her and I thought she was living in rape captivity I'd gather my toughest friends together and try to rescue her too. Would that be stupid? Sure it would, doesn't mean I should be called a douche for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naathi Prince Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Oh I know. But he was rather easy, or so I think. GRRM even said there might be some Brandon-bastards running around. ;) But still, I usually don't understand the criticism he gets for wanting his sister back, and demanding that in the right place.I imagine being the handsome heir to Winterfell means you would have a gaggle of pretty peasant girls seeking your um, favor all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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