Why wasn't Edmure married?

[ab aeterno]

With Hoster's declining health they should have been looking for a match, so Edmure would have a chance at having an heir, "just in case".

This has just been discussed in great detail on another thread, but assuming Edmure died, they already have an heir in Robb, Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya, Robert Arryn, so I don't think that would be a great concern.

All about the succession to the seat of Riverrun.

[Fat Mac]

Alright what I meant by the wartime comment was that a lot of marriages where Great Lords and heirs to Great Lords are involved are usually saved for a time where it might help either make and secure peace or unite two regions against a common enemy. Take Ned/Catelyn, Jon/Lysa, Renly/Margaery, Joffrey/Margaery and Robert/Cersei for example.

[aedalia]

Maybe, deep down, he was afraid of turning out like his dad? Poor Hoster wasn't the same after he lost Edmure's mother. Maybe Ed wasn't prepared to deal with that possibility so he decided to have fun knowing Cat had 5 kids if it came down to it.

[Fire Eater]

Theres a few parts in the books when Cat is talking to Edmure and asking if he was out partying all night

Edmure: Ah, as it happened, I was not in the castle. I'd crossed the Tumblestone to, ah . . .

Catelyn: You were whoring or wenching. Get on with the tale

Edmure just wanted to keep practicing for the bedding while he was still young

[ab aeterno]

Edmure: Ah, as it happened, I was not in the castle. I'd crossed the Tumblestone to, ah . . .

Catelyn: You were whoring or wenching. Get on with the tale

Edmure just wanted to keep practicing for the bedding while he was still young

This is the simplest explanation and for my money the most likely. I'm not sure there is anything else to it than this. His heart is in the right place, and he's always tried to help, but he has never really been the most responsible/competent Lord IMO.

[eRome]

It is odd. As the son, and heir, to a great house you'd think he'd be betrothed to a daughter from another noble house. I've also thought that Robb should have been promised to someone as well, even before AGOT. He was almost a man and Winterfell would want to sure-up alliances with a marriage pact...

[ab aeterno]

It is odd. As the son, and heir, to a great house you'd think he'd be betrothed to a daughter from another noble house. I've also thought that Robb should have been promised to someone as well, even before AGOT. He was almost a man and Winterfell would want to sure-up alliances with a marriage pact...

I don't think they had any great need to do so that soon. When we started out, Robb was what, 15? 16? The realm had been at peace for his entire lifel Jon Arryn and King Robert ruled the realm, the Starks were allied with House Tully, House Arryn and House(s) Baratheon. They had never liked the Lannisters, couldn't trust the Greyjoys, were probably too far away from Dorne and probably wouldn't have been considering Dorne anyway, and the Tyrells wouldn't have wanted Margaery to move north, neither would a lot of southerners. There was no great house for them to ally with, no particularly eligable and appropriate ladies. There would have been no great need or benefit to arranging a marriage pact for Robb.

[eRome]

I don't think they had any great need to do so that soon. When we started out, Robb was what, 15? 16? The realm had been at peace for his entire lifel Jon Arryn and King Robert ruled the realm, the Starks were allied with House Tully, House Arryn and House(s) Baratheon. They had never liked the Lannisters, couldn't trust the Greyjoys, were probably too far away from Dorne and probably wouldn't have been considering Dorne anyway, and the Tyrells wouldn't have wanted Margaery to move north, neither would a lot of southerners. There was no great house for them to ally with, no particularly eligable and appropriate ladies. There would have been no great need or benefit to arranging a marriage pact for Robb.

But people marry early in Westeros, or rather in GRRM's world, as they did in medieval times, because their life expectancy was short and they had to start having kids very young if they wanted to start a family.

Cat was betrothed to Brandon Stark when she was 12, and Brandon was 15. And this was done when the land was at peace.

Before that, when Brandon was even younger, Lord Ryswell tried to convince Rickard Stark to marry his daughter, Barbrey Ryswell, to his son. Barbrey is of an age with Cat, so she must have been even younger when he father offered her up to Winterfell.

Sansa is 12 when she's promised to Joffery. Daenerys is 14 when she's given to Drogo. Arya is 9 when she's promised to a Frey. Tywin Lannister tried to betroth Cersei to Rhaegar when she was a young girl, presumably the same age as Sansa when she was promised to Joff, or younger, but Aerys wasn't having it.

My point is that Edmure, as the heir of Riverrun, just as Robb, as heir to Winterfell, not being promised to young girls from other noble houses when they were younger are exceptions, not rules, in Westerosi culture...

[ab aeterno]

But people marry early in Westeros, or rather in GRRM's world, as they did in medieval times, because their life expectancy was short and they had to start having kids very young if they wanted to start a family.

Cat was betrothed to Brandon Stark when she was 12, and Brandon was 15. And this was done when the land was at peace.

Before that, when Brandon was even younger, Lord Ryswell tried to convince Rickard Stark to marry his daughter, Barbrey Ryswell, to his son. Barbrey is of an age with Cat, so she must have been even younger when he father offered her up to Winterfell.

Sansa is 12 when she's promised to Joffery. Daenerys is 14 when she's given to Drogo. Arya is 9 when she's promised to a Frey. Tywin Lannister tried to betroth Cersei to Rhaegar when she was a young girl, presumably the same age as Sansa when she was promised to Joff, or younger, but Aerys wasn't having it.

My point is that Edmure, as the heir of Riverrun, just as Robb, as heir to Winterfell, not being promised to young girls from other noble houses when they were younger are exceptions, not rules, in Westerosi culture...

Perhaps, but it's not that unusual. Renly wasn't betrothed until he as 19 or 20 at least, and if not for Robert's death, he probably wouldn't have been betrothed until later. We also have some examples of older women who were never married- Lady Cerwyn was one, and there were a couple of others but I can't name them atm. It is somewhat unusual, moreso for Edmure than for Robb, I think. It would be more unusual if there was a great house to marry with, but there wasn't really one available. Marrying Robb to some lesser house this early on would be wasteful and unnecessary. They didn't even need heirs with Bran and Rickon behind Robb. Also, I wouldn't necessarily ignore the fact that the Ned and Catelyn and Brandon, and Lysa were all wed or betrothed under very stressful circumstances, so that might have intended to a) shield their kids from that or B) allow Robb to choose his own wife.

[Scipio Africanus]

But people marry early in Westeros, or rather in GRRM's world, as they did in medieval times, because their life expectancy was short and they had to start having kids very young if they wanted to start a family.

But not everybody followed that rule. Petyr Baelish was unmarried untill he got Lysa. How old was he? Touching 30? Brynden Tully never married. He's in his 30s now? Rently Baratheon probably wouldn't have married yet if Bob hadn't died. Kingguards obviously didn't marry but I wouldn't see Loras marrying soon either even if not a KG. And Willas Tyrrel isn't married either.

There are quite a few women mentioned as unmarried and in their 30s as well.

Various factors influence if someone is promised at a young age. Edmure probably said hell no. Remembering the fights he had with Brynden Hoster probably let the issue slide and eventuelly became too sick to bring up the stamina and arrange a marriage.

[SeanF]

Ser Edmure was probably happy just being a playboy.

But, he'd have seen the necessity of marriage eventually.

[Lord Martin]

Maybe GRRM just needed two single people so he could tell us the story of the worst wedding of all time.

[lojzelote]

Hoster was waiting for a golden opportunity to snatch a daughter of a Great House, but no luck there. Then he got sick, and Edmure was in no hurry to marry.

[The Storm Queen]

Hoster was too ill, the Blackfush not exactly in a situation where he could push a marriage without appearing as a hypocrite, there were spare heirs via Cat Stark who even looked like Riverland/Tully kids and payed lip service to the Seven and Edmure was too busy to party.

I can also see that after Cat marrying into house Stark and Lysa becoming a Arryn every possible match for Edmure would be kind of a letdown. The best he could have hoped for was a Frey or maybe a Royce match and I could not see Hoster being to happy with that. So why not wait out a generation?

[The hairy bear]

Besides the arguments already exposed, I think there are two othe factor that may have contributed to Edmure being unmarried:

1) One is the heir to the crown (Joffrey) not being bethroted. That would cause all the families with young daughters to postpone potential alliances hoping to marry them to the future king. That may habe been the case of Margaery Tyrell, Desmera Redwyne, or Ysilla Royce.

2) The other is the extraordinary distribution of the sexes of the last noble generation, far away from the stadistical expectations. There have been much more boys than girls in the major houses, limiting a lot the available brides suitable for the Tully heir: Baratheons (2 boys / 1 girl), Starks (4/2), Arryns (1/0), Tyrells (3/1), Martells (2/1), Greyjoys (3/1),...

[ab aeterno]

Besides the arguments already exposed, I think there are two othe factor that may have contributed to Edmure being unmarried:

2) The other is the extraordinary distribution of the sexes of the last noble generation of the sexes, far away from the stadistical expectations. There have been much more boys than girls in the major houses, limiting a lot the available brides suitable for the Tully heir: Baratheons (2 boys / 1 girl), Starks (4/2), Arryns (1/0), Tyrells (3/1), Martells (2/1), Greyjoys (3/1),...

Technically, aren't the Starks 3/2? And the Baratheons are 2-2, I think?

[Brandon Martell]

Alright what I meant by the wartime comment was that a lot of marriages where Great Lords and heirs to Great Lords are involved are usually saved for a time where it might help either make and secure peace or unite two regions against a common enemy. Take Ned/Catelyn, Jon/Lysa, Renly/Margaery, Joffrey/Margaery and Robert/Cersei for example.

I don't think they're saved for an urgent time. I think they just rush it in urgent times cause it's needed. They don't intend to save it till war breaks out, but when it does, they rush it. There's plenty of examples of great houses marrying in times of peace: Elia+Rhaegar, Cersei+Rhaegar attempt, Brandon+Catelyn, Sansa+Joffrey, Genna+Emmon, Stannis+Selyse, etc.

And those saying Sansa and Arya, wtf? They're his nieces. That's worse than Targaryens.

[The hairy bear]

Technically, aren't the Starks 3/2? And the Baratheons are 2-2, I think?

Correct, my bad. Jon shouldn't be counted, and Shireen is available. Still, an unlikely distribution that is maintained when considering the second tier houses.

[ab aeterno]

And those saying Sansa and Arya, wtf? They're his nieces. That's worse than Targaryens.

Playing devi's advocate here a little but I think that, certainly from a genetic point of view, uncle-niece probably isn't worse than sibling marriage, because they're less genetically similar, but not by far. I wouldn't say that's worse than the Targaryens- they did all types of incest. They were potentially looking to marry Aegon to Dany as well.

[Cairo]

Playing devi's advocate here a little but I think that, certainly from a genetic point of view, uncle-niece probably isn't worse than sibling marriage, because they're less genetically similar, but not by far. I wouldn't say that's worse than the Targaryens- they did all types of incest. They were potentially looking to marry Aegon to Dany as well.

Tywin married his cousin don't forget, and look how that turned out. Sad that Tyrion is the most capable of them, but he turned out to be a dwarf. Yes I know Jaime is a great warrior but he was pussywhipped by his own twin sister.