Purple wedding in Season 3 or Season 4?

[Matt O'Sevens]

I'm betting it's in S3 because:

1. Putting it in S4 means bringing back Jack Gleeson for 1 episode. It's far more economical to kill him at the end of S3.

2. Sansa's escape happens during the PW. It's far easier to keep Sophie Turner & Aiden Gillen in Belfast for all of S4 than having them split time with the Malta team. Re-shooting would be a nightmare.

3. The PW works far better narratively as the conclusion to S3. Starting S4 with the PW, followed by 7-8 episodes of buildup is to the duel is much of an emotional shift.

4. Ending with the RW would alienate a number of viewers who don't get to see Joff offed.

I don't thin they have filmed in Malta since season 1, besides the studio for the Eyrie is in Belfast, so that's a moot point.

I'm very confident that the only weddings we will see in S3 are Tyrion's and the RW. There is no way they are going to cram all three into one season, that is the point of splitting the book into two seasons. The RW will be in ep. 9 or 10, it will go down in history as one of the most shocking season enders (or penultimate episodes) of all time. Bet on it.

I don't see how it will 'alienate' viewers. All they have to do is tune in for S4. Trying to fit all 3 weddings into one season is just waaaay too much, for a 10-episode season, that is. If they had a longer season, it would work. Saving it for S4 is the way to go. Just think about how much more they will be able to flesh out the storylines, no more cramming things together, or condensing two or more events into one scene (like the shadow baby this season, they filmed it the way it was described when Davos rowed Mel under Storm's End to kill Ser Cortnay Penrose, but due to the limited episodes, they had to condense Renly's and Ser Cartnay's deaths into one scene, and the cut out Ser Cortnay and Storm's End completely.)

Maybe with them having more time to cover less story, we will get to see a higher percentage of book events played out on screen than we have seen in previous seasons. I, personally, am hoping to see Tyrion and Bronn serve up some Singer's Stew this year.

[Sasha Steelsong]

I don't see how it will 'alienate' viewers. All they have to do is tune in for S4.

Really...you don't think the viewers who already want Joffrey dead (and I freely admit I hate TV Joffrey so much more than book Joffrey) and gone will be happy that he lives out the season when Robb and Cat are slaughtered? That they might just not have interest anymore in a series where the bad guys always seem to win at the end of the season? They root for the Lannisters because they like Tyrion NOT because they like the Lannisters. And Tyrion's time of glory in KL is over. There is a reason that the book didn't end on the RW and why the RW was not in part 1, when it was split into two books in Europe. Because it was never intended as something the readers would be left hanging over. They were given a bit of closure in the books with the PW and Sansa's escape. Plenty of people put down the books at the RW and had to be convinced to see it through again. With the TV series plenty may just not turn in again. Personally I will probably wait for Season 4 to tune in again if it is RW and no PW, since I don't feel like sitting through the self-flagellation of the RW if there is no PW coming for a year. That way if they don't get a Season 4 (unlikely but always possible) I'm spared and if they do, I don't have to wait a year to see the playing field start to level. The advangage of knowing what's coming.

I think it woud be a very bad idea to seperate the two weddings and always have. I also think that changing the story so suddenly T+S marry in E8 in a big ceremony isn't doing justice to the source material given that the whole point of their wedding was that it was secret and on the fly so no one could stop it.

[Newstar]

Really...you don't think the viewers who already want Joffrey dead (and I freely admit I hate TV Joffrey so much more than book Joffrey) and gone will be happy that he lives out the season when Robb and Cat are slaughtered? That they might just not have interest anymore in a series where the bad guys always seem to win at the end of the season?

I dunno. It seems like no matter what manner of cruelties and tragedies GRRM inflicts on his readers, we all come crawling back for more. It's not like "Baelor" lost the show any viewers; if anything, it's even more popular than before. And from what I can tell, non-book readers have already intuited that Robb, in marrying Talisa, has made a horrible mistake which is likely to get him killed; they learn quickly, ha!

I agree that it would make more sense to lump the RW and the PW together in a 1/2 Ep 9/Ep 10 punch, especially since they're quite close together in the books, but for whatever reason it doesn't look like the showrunners are doing that. It's a bit premature to conclude anything one way or another, though, as filming is still going on.

I also think that changing the story so suddenly T+S marry in E8 in a big ceremony isn't doing justice to the source material given that the whole point of their wedding was that it was secret and on the fly so no one could stop it.

Yeah, it seems a little strange to blow it up into a big, formal affair when part of the point was that it was kind of cobbled together at the last minute. It wasn't as if only Lannisters were in attendance, though; Sansa names off several other witnesses (Varys and some nobles). The Tyrells are nowhere to be seen at the wedding itself (although they show up at the feast, I think).

In the show, it's going to make the Lannisters pretty dumb if they try to pull off a quickie stealth wedding to and invite half of King's Landing. (It's also going to make Sansa look pretty dumb if a Will/Kate-level wedding with hundreds of guests is brewing and she has absolutely no clue either that it's even happening or she's the bride until the very last minute. Sansa can be a little dense sometimes, but come on.) Maybe the circumstances of the wedding are a little different, in that the Lannisters and Tyrells have some kind of pow-wow where the Lannisters announce that Sansa is to be married to Tyrion and the Tyrells grit their teeth and can't do anything about it. If the Lannisters then proceeded to have a big, expensive, public Tyrion/Sansa wedding, it would be a very Lannister thing to do: subtly sticking it to the Tyrells by making a big public display of the Tyrells' failure and the Lannisters' success.

I'm still kind of scratching my head on why the showrunners would want to spend more money on the Tyrion/Sansa wedding and not less. It seems like the sort of thing that could be filmed pretty cheaply, since again in the books it was a secret thing on the fly, with not that many guests in attendance. The fact that it's so late in the season and that it was filmed as a big event suggests to me that the Season 3 King's Landing arc will probably be augmented a fair bit with non-book material or changed substantially.

[Jak Snow]

Honestly, all the people who hope the Purple Wedding takes place in season 3, can you answer me this - what do you actually want for season 4? Why do you want all the big events next season? The more you want things done soon, the quicker the tv show ends. A Storm of Swords is going to be covered in both season 3 and season 4, this is a fact.

[sillent]

logistically it makes sense to have the sansa tyrion wedding in ep8, RW in ep9, and PW in ep10.. itll keep their budget nice and tight so I wouldn't be too surprised.. also in their shooting of the first wedding they can probably change the sets around a bit and have the same people shoot the PW..

[daimonionen]

A fair question would be - if not the PW, how then to end the KL-storyline.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Honestly, all the people who hope the Purple Wedding takes place in season 3, can you answer me this - what do you actually want for season 4? Why do you want all the big events next season? The more you want things done soon, the quicker the tv show ends. A Storm of Swords is going to be covered in both season 3 and season 4, this is a fact.

A story arch that picks up after the three kings are dead and there is chaos everywhere. I want Season 4 to focus on Tyrion's trial and escape, on Sansa in the Vale, on Jon fighting at the wall and being elected Lord Commander, Dany making her piss poor decision to stay in Mereen (the sooner we get through that in both the books and the show the better off the story will be), Dorne and the Iron Islands. I have no problem with SOS still being covered in Season 4 as evidenced by what I'd like to see, but what I have a problem with is the idea that they are blowing up what is supposed to be a quickie clandestine wedding into a big deal and not killing Joffrey off this season if they don't do the PW. There is A LOT to cover after the PW, I just see no reason for Joffrey to live beyond season 3.

[NewJeffCT]

I don't think they can pull off the Purple Wedding in Season 3, since Winter is Coming has confirmed from an inside source that the Tyrion-Sansa wedding is in Episode 8. Do they have that wedding side-by-side with the Red Wedding? They would then have the have the PW in episode 9 or 10.

However, since it's a royal wedding, I would think it improper not to have the Dornish there - as well as Mace Tyrell. And, I think they would save more money by not having the Red Viper for 2 seasons instead of 1, as well as not having to cast Mace until Season 4 as well, than it would by keeping Jack Gleeson around for a few more episodes.

[NewJeffCT]

A fair question would be - if not the PW, how then to end the KL-storyline.

If the Tyrion-Sansa wedding is in episode 8 and the RW is episode 9 or 10... I would think you could end up with the news of the RW hiting King's Landing, Joff gloating, etc. Plus, you have Tyrion deciding not to consumate his marriage as well.

[King of the Road]

Season 3 maybe to end with Joffrey collapsing on the floor?

Personally I'm thinking PW will be in episode 2 season 4.

[Misleader]

I say season 5 and Joffrey never dies.

[Longspear Ryk]

what makes everyone think Oberyn wont be casted....

[Newstar]

it will go down in history as one of the most shocking season enders (or penultimate episodes) of all time. Bet on it.

The showrunners have hinted several times at their eagerness to do the RW, and they've also stated something to the effect, I think, that they think something like the RW has never been done on TV before, so I can see them putting it in a place to cause the maximum shock and horror. I can even see them deviating from the Ep 9 showpiece pattern for Seasons 1 and 2 to put the RW at the very end of Season 3, even if that would disrupt the pattern for Seasons 1 and 2 of ending with "ice" and "fire" scenes.

I don't know that nothing like the Red Wedding has ever been done on TV before (in terms of shock, horror, character deaths). The Battlestar Galactica had a lot of shocking character deaths and a pretty high body count, and that aired only a few years ago. Going back even further, ER had a lot of crazy character deaths, and the episode where Carter and Lucy--two main characters on the show--were stabbed by that guy in the hospital went down as a horrific, shocking episode. (That stabbing also happened during a party with music blaring, now that I think about it.) I do wonder if the RW might not lose some of its impact since the Stark bannermen, apart from Greatjon--who isn't coming back for Season 3 that I know of--don't seem to have much individual identity in the show. No Dacey Mormont, etc. etc.

what makes everyone think Oberyn wont be casted....

I guess he could be, but it seems kind of late in the game given that they're in the middle of filming Season 3. How late were castings announced in 2011? Oberyn's also a memorable, flashy, fan favourite character, even if he doesn't last very long in the books, so if he had been cast, we'd know about it, and if he were going to be cast for Season 3, well, wouldn't he have already been cast by now?

I can see the writers bringing the Martells on to the scene in Season 4 in one go, just like House Tully and Riverrun are really only coming into play in Season 3, despite being around in ACOK. Assuming the PW is being put over, the scene where Tyrion goes to greet Oberyn Martell could be a good fit for the first episode of Season 4, as it would provide the opportunity to introduce House Martell and do an exposition dump of the kind the TV writers are so fond of.

[GoodGuyA]

even if that would disrupt the pattern for Seasons 1 and 2 of ending with "ice" and "fire" scenes.

Isn't the whole "ice and fire" parallels just a fan theory anyways? I don't think it was ever really set out to do "a book of ice" and "a book of fire" alternating. The things just emerge as needed. Besides, both Season 1 and 2 ended at the wall, so how is that alternating? I'd just say, do it as best serves the story in the long run. That's the most important bit out of it.

[PatrickStormborn]

Honestly, all the people who hope the Purple Wedding takes place in season 3, can you answer me this - what do you actually want for season 4? Why do you want all the big events next season? The more you want things done soon, the quicker the tv show ends. A Storm of Swords is going to be covered in both season 3 and season 4, this is a fact.

We want King's Landing to have big events in season three. Without the PW, it only has one, and that's being pushed back! There is a lot of material that occurs in King's Landing after the PW -- and it can only happen AFTER the PW. I can't see the PW happening any earlier than episode 4, which pretty much means that all the KL material in ASoS will be condensed into seven episodes (PW, Tyrion meeting Varys et al. before his trial, Jaime's return, Tyrion's trial, Oberyn vs the Mountain, Tommen's coronation, Jaime's scenes with Brienne, Loras, Tywin and Cersei, the murders of Tywin and Shae).

I guess we just want different things from the show. I want good television that doesn't strictly follow the chronology of the books and instead does what is best for the characters and the show as a whole. I think that spreading ASoS over two seasons is a bad idea and ruins what makes the book so good -- constant plot twists and action. I would have preferred introducing elements of AFfC/ADwD in season four (the Kingsmoot, Tommen and Margaery's wedding, Roose Bolton taking Winterfell with Ramsay, Stannis heading south, etc).

I do have a crackpot theory that would basically solve one of the problems I have with the lack of PW... Sansa still escapes. I'm not sure if they'll do it, but I think it would be an amazing way to conclude the KL story and give viewers hope for the Starks. Basically the whole season in KL will be about weddings -- Cersei plans Joffrey's, and the Tyrells try and plan Sansa's to Willas... But things go wrong, and Sansa ends up marrying Tyrion. The story in KL therefore seems quite Sansa-centric, with one side being about Sansa's escape, and one about her remaining in KL. Ending the season with Sansa escaping without the help of either of them would resolve that story, imo.

If they go for the RW in episode 9, I hope the finale is like this:

• Sansa escaping King's Landing
  
• Arya retrieving Needle
  
• Jon defeating the wildlings at Castle Black (doubtful seeing as the actor playing Pyp only had one day of filming, however)
  
• Daenerys being hailed 'Mysha' (I think this scene could quite possibly be one of the best in the show if they get it right)
  
• Stannis deciding to head North
  
• Bran and Rickon being split up
  
• Catelyn being revived by Beric (concludes Beric's story and ends the season by combining 'fire' and 'ice' - Cat becomes a cold-hearted fire zombie)
  

That way, although the Lannisters are still winning, we have every reason to believe that "the wolves will come again", and that it won't be long until they get what's coming to them.

[oierem]

For me, the fact that the battle of Castle Black won't be in season 3 is even worse that the absence of the PW, considering that Jon's story was considered to be way too slow and boring in season 2. I hope that Jon kills Ygritte somwhow this season anyway, either in Castle Black or in Queenscrown...

[PatrickStormborn]

For me, the fact that the battle of Castle Black won't be in season 3 is even worse that the absence of the PW, considering that Jon's story was considered to be way too slow and boring in season 2. I hope that Jon kills Ygritte somwhow this season anyway, either in Castle Black or in Queenscrown...

I'm really worried about this too. If 'Autumn Storms' covers the events of Queenscrown, how can Jon only have one episode at the Wall? I'm kind of hoping that he arrives back in episode 9 and is arrested, and his scenes in the finale are in his cell, which would explain why Pyp wasn't in them. This would obviously cause problems though, because it means Jon never gets to show his leadership/save the Wall, but I just can't see how else they can conclude his arc? Does he simply arrive back at the Wall in the finale and say "guys the wildlings are coming", without the wildlings actually coming?

The fact that Kit has started filming in Northern Ireland despite his injury suggests that we're definitely not getting a battle, imo.

[WinterWarrior]

Having the RW and Tyrion/Sansa's wedding is season 3 is enough, you have to leave something from SoS for season 4, the PW has to be in season 4. Unless they are going to move AFFC into season 4 with some of SoS you will be taking all of the main highlights from SOS and putting them in one season if all three weddings are in Season 3.

I would be very surprised if all three weddings were in Season 3. But I have been surprised before. GRRM better get WoW out....the years pass quickly and HBO will run out of story!

[oierem]

I'm really worried about this too. If 'Autumn Storms' covers the events of Queenscrown, how can Jon only have one episode at the Wall? I'm kind of hoping that he arrives back in episode 9 and is arrested, and his scenes in the finale are in his cell, which would explain why Pyp wasn't in them. This would obviously cause problems though, because it means Jon never gets to show his leadership/save the Wall, but I just can't see how else they can conclude his arc? Does he simply arrive back at the Wall in the finale and say "guys the wildlings are coming", without the wildlings actually coming?

The fact that Kit has started filming in Northern Ireland despite his injury suggests that we're definitely not getting a battle, imo.

I think both news (no battle of CB and no PW) are complementary: it indicates that the writers have decided that they really want to have a slower pacing/give more time to George. They might be right of course, but I think they've good judgment has been clouded by the success of the series and their ability to streamline the material may have been replaced by self-complacency (or fan-complacency).

[DragonAge93]

Well, since it's all but confirmed Tyrion/Sansa's marriage is episode 8, I'd assume that means PW will be middle of season 4. The Martells need to be present, and since none of them have been cast, and will most likely be introduced in season 4, that's when the PW will occur. And I feel if they did put PW in season 3 there would be too much going on at the end. I'd say have RW be the climatic ending to season 3, then have PW be the big event for season 4, along with the battle of the Wall.