Concerning LF

[The Crow's Eye]

I...I have a confession to make.

I like Littlefinger. I always have, and, considering I like him even after what he's done, and after he has revealed many of his less than endearing traits, I always will.

This isn't the same as my love for, say, Euron. With Euron, I embrace his batshit villainy. But with LF, I just can't quite put my finger on it. Is it his game playing brilliance? Is it his remarkable rise from most inconsequential of lords to one of the most powerful men in Westeros? Is it his pointy beard? Is it the way he sows chaos, plotting to bring about the downfall of the Great Houses that spurned him? Or is it something else entirely?

Anyway, is anyone with me on this? This is essentially a LF appreciation thread.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

I think it's easy for most of us to identify at least partially with someone who was repeatedly told he wasn't good enough. Who wanted something or someone he couldn't have, who was made to feel powerless by people higher up the ladder, and who always wished there was maybe a way to get back at them, or end up getting what they wanted anyway.

"I'll be better than them someday. They won't be able to laugh at me forever. I'll show him. I'll show her. I'll show them all. "

Littlefinger scratches at that revenge fantasy itch that most of us have had at least once in our lives, even if ever so briefly. Though hopefully we're not quite as sociopathic about pursuing it as Littlefinger appears to be. :)

Plus he's the closest we've got so far to an actual commoner locking horns with the nobles and winning, beating their privilege and influence over and over again with his wits, skill, and talent. Yes, he's technically of a noble house himself, but their title and land is so low on the totem pole in prestige, martial/political power, and economic might, that he's really not much higher up the chain than a successful guildsman or trader might be. Far enough below Starks and Lannisters and Tullys and Baratheons to be the perpetual underdog to them.

[brashcandy]

I think it's easy for most of us to identify at least partially with someone who was repeatedly told he wasn't good enough. Who wanted something or someone he couldn't have, who was made to feel powerless by people higher up the ladder, and who always wished there was maybe a way to get back at them, or end up getting what they wanted anyway.

"I'll be better than them someday. They won't be able to laugh at me forever. I'll show him. I'll show her. I'll show them all. "

Was LF told he wasn't good enough outside of his attempt to marry Catelyn and Sansa? I think we have to be careful when viewing him as this underdog who was endured constant denigration and denial. This is a man who could have made a good life for himself had he not developed an obsessive streak with power, and nurtured an innate resentment about not getting the girl. Even if he had been highborn, there's no evidence that Cat thought of him as anything more than a brother.

[King Euron Swagjoy]

I like Littlerfinger as well. He may be a creep and an ass, but he's incredibly intelligent, and is one of the, if not the, best players of the game. He's also interesting because we still don't what the hell he wants. He have an idea of Varys' motives, but we still don't know what Littlefinger's endgame is. He is also a self made man, and went from being the grandson of a sellsword, and son of a landed knight, to being a High Lord.

[Fire Eater]

I like Littlerfinger as well. He may be a creep and an ass, but he's incredibly intelligent, and is one of the, if not the, best players of the game. He's also interesting because we still don't what the hell he wants. He have an idea of Varys' motives, but we still don't know what Littlefinger's endgame is. He is also a self made man, and went from being the grandson of a sellsword, and son of a landed knight, to being a High Lord.

Great-grandson of a sellsword, grandson of a landed knight and son of a small lord. Sorry to nitpick

Littlefinger is pretty much one of the most skilled players in the game of thrones with his only weakness being Sansa. You can admire his cunning and his hard work that allowed him to rise high. He also has a good sense of humor and wit.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

Well it's obviously easy to like the fact that he's so self-made. He rose up the ranks to Master of Coin by virtue of his personal talents, not because of his "high" birth (which isn't really too high).

As for generally liking him as a character, I think it's too early to tell because we know so little about his true motivations. Pretty much all of his actions will have to be judged against their purpose when we find out what that purpose has been all along.

[Tony Soprano]

I like him too.

He's one of the most mysterious characters in the series, whose motivations are unknown. I think that's one of the reasons he's son interesting to me.

The other reason would be his wits. Even though I think he's kind of a creep when it comes to Sansa, he's still a smart creep. Not even Varys and his little birds know what he's after, why he's doing what he's doing.

And I also like the fact that he's a self made man. He rose to great heights from a very low birth and is better at playing the game of thrones than all the High Lords of the Realm.

[Antonius Pius]

Nope. He's a sly pervert and a murderer, he needs to be taken down a few notches. By Eddard Stark and Catelyn Tully's daughter, if at all possible.

[Danelle]

No matter how much I try, I just cannot make myself like LF. I appreciate his cunning ability to work his way up the food chain and even Varys is weary of him. His greatest asset is exactly the fact that he is almost baseborn. Unlike the highborn lords and ladies he knows how to move around the smallfolk and how to manipulate them with money or promises. But in the end he remains a whiny child, who still cannot accept that Cat thought of him as a friend and nothing more. Or a brother, littlebrother. His inferiority complex towards tall, highborn men will be his demise. Possibly the only man that Jaime Lannister can defeat with his left hand.

[Mikkel]

:agree:

I know I should try to respect his abilities, but I just.. can't.. like him. His only endearing quality to me is that he may be a match for Varys, whom I actually must confess to liking a little bit, even if he's objectively as bad as, or worse than LF.

[Danelle]

:agree:

I know I should try to respect his abilities, but I just.. can't.. like him. His only endearing quality to me is that he may be a match for Varys, whom I actually must confess to liking a little bit, even if he's objectively as bad as, or worse than LF.

Both of them are good players and both of them I hate, but Varys is scary because his motives are a mystery unlike LF, who is a machiavellian villain.

[Antonius Pius]

Both of them are good players and both of them I hate, but Varys is scary because his motives are a mystery unlike LF, who is a machiavellian villain.

And a pederast. :ack:

[Pellaeon]

"Kill him, kill him with fire!"

or gravity

[Danelle]

And a pederast. :ack:

You mean this?

We best hope he is. Mya won't wait past midday." The winch room was unheated, so his breath misted with every word.

"She'll wait," Alayne said. "She has to wait."

"Don't be so certain, m'lady. She's half mule herself, that one. I think she'd leave us all to starve before she'd put those animals at risk." He smiled when he said it. He always smiles when he speaks of Mya Stone. Mya was much younger than Ser Lothor, but when her father had been brokering the marriage between Lord Corbray and his merchant's daughter, he'd told her that young girls were always happiest with older men. "Innocence and experience make for a perfect marriage," he had said.

FFC, Alayne

[Mikkel]

I think the pederast part refers to LF having the hots for Sansa? In Westeros though, she's "old enough", since she has bled. Disgusting to us, normal to them.

[Antonius Pius]

You mean this?

FFC, Alayne

No, I meant his general skeeviness towards Sansa, forcing her to kiss him and imprinting all his Catelyn-fancies on her. And preparing to use her as a marriage-tool to gain more influence.

Edited: Mikkel, there's the age thing (disgusting enough), but there's also the Catelyn proxy that's just as wrong IMO.

[Mikkel]

Oh I agree that LF going for Cat's daughter is creepy in the extreme too. It reminds me of someone I met at a party once, who cheerfully informed me that he'd picked up his father's girlfriend after the father died. That guy was a freak too, though, with none of LF's brilliance, and what's even scarier, that guy actually exists.

[Antonius Pius]

:ack:

[Lummel]

I think it's easy for most of us to identify at least partially with someone who was repeatedly told he wasn't good enough...

Plus he's the closest we've got so far to an actual commoner locking horns with the nobles and winning...

Don't know when he was told repeatedly that he was never good enough if anything he had the opposite problem - being told as a child that he would be great and then hitting the jackpot and being fostered out to a Great Lord.

Also he is nothing like a commoner. He is a Lord in his own right, by birth. Not one of the one percent, but one of the 0.1 percent who rule Westeros. Simply because he doesn't belong to one of the dozen or so most powerful families or the three or four dozen next most powerful families shouldn't blind us to the fact that in Westeros he is close to the apex of the social pyramid. If you want commoners making good look to Davos and Janos Slynt.

Money does not give you status in Westeros, potentially just the opposite - look how the Freys are sniffed at for collecting toll revenues!

[Scipio Africanus]

And a pederast. :ack:

Compared to:

Liking Jaime Lannister, a child-tossing twincest vain and egotistical man who murdered his first employer he swore an oath to and passed his own brood off as his second employer's to whome he also swore an oath to. Helped start the War of Five Kings costing thousends in lives and millions in property damage.

Liking Tywin Lannister, a man who had the woman his father loved ostracised for not being of noble birth, had one of his son's legal wedded wife gang-raped because he didn't like her social status, and ordered his troops to raid, pillage, burn and rape the Riverlands just because they didn't bend a knee fast enough for him. Helped start the War of Five Kings costing thousends in lives and millions in property damage. Helped start the War of Five Kings costing thousends in lives and millions in property damage.

Liking Tyrion Lannister, a man who openly threatens his nephews to kill them if his sister doesn't listen to him, sends a bard to end up in a pot because his prize possestion, a prostitute, liked the guy; complies with ordering a bunch of men tortured by nailing antlers through their heads, agrees with the father he so-called hates to marry a teenage girl in duress and nearly rapes her, later murders his own father in the privy and his former prize possestion the prostitute while he's at it; procedes to lie to his brother just to get back at him for something that happened years ago, and while in exile for his crimes rapes a slave girl.

Liking Stannis Baratheon, a so-called "just" man who cheats on his wife by taking a blood-magic shadowbinding priestess who has a penchant for burning people to death, makes evil creatures with said priestess with the sole purpose of assassinating people he doesn't like, and generally groes fond of bbq-ing people to death as well all out of his own perceived "justice".

All above are forum favourites, just examples.

I'd say LF and Varys, while Machiavellian, murdering bastards who helped start the war of the Five Kings, are actually quite decent compared to the above.

Not decent enough in my books as LF is probably a pederast but it's kinda hypocrite to diss LF (and Varys) while loving characters who have sinned like hell and perhaps more so then LF.

@ OP

All hail LF, who has become death, destroyer of worlds!

He and Varys better not die next novel, who else is going to make things interesting then?