Tywin/Tyrion/Shae

[Green Dreamin]

The Targaryens marry eachother and the Lannisters share whores. Its a new tradition.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

The Targaryens marry each other and the Lannisters share whores.

You mean like Jaime and Lancel did? :leaving:

[Dornish Whine]

You mean like Jaime and Lancel did? :leaving:

...and Osmund Kettleback, and Moon boy for all we know.. ;)

[Lux in Tenebris]

The only link between Tywin and Shae is that Tyrion found her in Tywin's bed.

Nobody in Cersei's, Jaime's or Kevan's POV has a explanation for this beyond Qyburn's suggestion. Nobody mentions somebody bringing her there, or the Hand ordering her to be brought there. The Red Keep is a public place. There are guards on the door - people would know if Tywin had had ordered for her to brought to him. The only way that nobody would know is if Varys had her brought in secretly via the secret passages.

Why would Tywin sleep with Shae. Tywin can marry again if he wants. Tywin is wealthy, he could have one of those courtesans brought over for his enjoyment. If he wants privacy and he had the secret tunnel to Chataya's built then he can indulge himself any time he wants. Even he doesn't know about the tunnel with his wealth he could buy as much confidentiality and professionalism as he wants. Or he could employ a woman from the westerlands, in his household, convenient, on hand and private. So why sleep with a former tuppenny prostitute and camp follower of no fixed abode? It's a distinctly odd choice.

Wasn't she naked wearing a necklace of hands?

[DaveSnow House Stark]

I have to agree that she wasn't just a plant, she had the necklace on her at the time. I haven't put too much thought into the rest of it. It does take you back to the camp scene when Bronn brings her and states he took her from another tent. She seems too refined for a regular camp whore. I just can't buy into Tywin planting her there just to use her against him later, seems far fetched.

[Lummel]

Wasn't she naked wearing a necklace of hands?

and? Was Tywin the only man who could have put that on her?

[The Fallen]

` The question is why would Tywin be sleeping with Shae? The answer has been given to us by Tyrion. How many times did Tyrion swear that he would never see Shae again? How many times did come to the conclusion that he was risking so much if he was found with Shae? Yet he did it anyway. It's the same with Tywin. He's no rookie to whoring and Shae wasn't planted. (BTW, didn't Tyrion find Shae after he killed Tywin?) I have no doubt that Tywin was the Hand who built a secret passage way into Chataya's in order to come and go without being seen and risking the honor of his house. So Tywin's been tricking for decades.

Like Genna said, Tyrion is Tywin's son through and through.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

There is a theory that Varys planted Shae in Tywin's bed, with the idea of further enraging Tyrion when he found her there.

One version of this theory has Varys smuggling Shae in without Tywin;s knowledge (or at least without the knowledge that his whore for the night was going to be Shae), having first ensured with Widows Blood that Tywin was stuck in the privy.

I am tempted by this theory precisely because it seems odd Tywin would risk using a whore who had so humiliated a previous customer.

This actually makes perfect sense. How convenient, Tyrion stumbles past his old chamber, and finds a cross bow and his ex lover.

[Lummel]

` The question is why would Tywin be sleeping with Shae? The answer has been given to us by Tyrion. How many times did Tyrion swear that he would never see Shae again? How many times did come to the conclusion that he was risking so much if he was found with Shae? Yet he did it anyway. It's the same with Tywin. He's no rookie to whoring and Shae wasn't planted. (BTW, didn't Tyrion find Shae after he killed Tywin?) I have no doubt that Tywin was the Hand who built a secret passage way into Chataya's in order to come and go without being seen and risking the honor of his house. So Tywin's been tricking for decades.

Like Genna said, Tyrion is Tywin's son through and through.

no Tyrion murders Shae first.

It's quite possible - but that's an assumption that can only be based on one thing - that Tyrion finds Shae asleep in Tywin's bed. That's the danger. We then have to assume that everything else we know about Tywin's sex life is a lie or is some kind of projection.

Alternatively we assume that everything that we are told about Tywin's sexual attitudes is correct and that there is something fishy about Shae being in his bed.

[Lux in Tenebris]

and? Was Tywin the only man who could have put that on her?

She was naked, with a necklace of hands in his bed while he was going to the bathroom.

Draw your own conclusions, but to think he didn't know she was there is beyond foolish.

[Jaime's Wench]

Hate of others is often a symptom of hating oneself - Tywin hates Tyrion's whoring because it reminds him of aspects of his own persona (and Tytos) that he despises.

I totally agree with you! Also, the fact that Tyrion is comfortable and brash enough to let the world know he whores. Tywin resents that - he resents how his son dares to show others a disdainful side of himself, whilst Tywin must always be the 'cold glacier' of perfection.

[DDDUnit]

There is a theory that Varys planted Shae in Tywin's bed, with the idea of further enraging Tyrion when he found her there.

So Varys also planted the hand of the king pendant on her as well? Yeah, I don't think so. Shae was there to show another reason why Tyrion was the true son of Tywin, not Jaime, just as Tywin's own sister said at Riverrun.

[Lummel]

She was naked, with a necklace of hands in his bed while he was going to the bathroom.

Draw your own conclusions, but to think he didn't know she was there is beyond foolish.

Then I'm beyond foolish :)

She was asleep - so she had clearly been alone for some time. Seeing as she wasn't disturbed by the sound of tyrion coming through the secret entrance she was extremely soundly asleep - is that normal?

That also means that Tywin had been on the toilet trying to move his bowels for a long time - is that normal?

No word or rumour comes to either Cersei, Jaime or Kevan that Tywin is sleeping with Shae and why would Tywin sleep with Shae of all people. The whole situation is odd.

[Makes No Sansa]

I never really thought about it until now, but in find it quite odd that Tywin would use a whore that was previously used by Tyrion.

It is made perfectly clear that Tywin despises and loathes Tyrion, I just don't picture him then having sex with Tyrion's personal bed slave.

I don't think Tywin would mind. I think he's not as honourable as we think, in fact, I think he's a depravated fucker who likes whoring as much as his son.

[A wilding]

So Varys also planted the hand of the king pendant on her as well?

Why not? Varys knows Shae was wearing it that time she was with Tyrion in the same bed. Since his purpose is to make Tyrion angry, getting her to wear it again can only help.

But maybe Shae just thought of putting it on herself. After all that is what she did with Tyrion, so maybe she is just repeating an effect.

[Lux in Tenebris]

Then I'm beyond foolish :)

She was asleep - so she had clearly been alone for some time. Seeing as she wasn't disturbed by the sound of tyrion coming through the secret entrance she was extremely soundly asleep - is that normal?

That also means that Tywin had been on the toilet trying to move his bowels for a long time - is that normal?

No word or rumour comes to either Cersei, Jaime or Kevan that Tywin is sleeping with Shae and why would Tywin sleep with Shae of all people. The whole situation is odd.

Why does her being asleep mean she had been alone for some time. They could have just had sex and she took a nap five minutes after Tywin left...

[Quiet Isle]

I think that Tywin saw whores and uses his public disdain for them as a way to hide the fact that he did. I think the offhand remark that Varys uses about special hidden doors and secret passage ways being used for a certain hand of the King was meant to reference Tywin...put premier whores not Tyrion's leavings!!!

That. See above.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Tywin sleeping with Shae was just another casualty of the utter backstabbing that ensued after Joffreys death, maybe even before it. We know that Shae was desperate to climb above her station, even begging Sansa to go to the wedding feast, even though Tyrion was the one who denied her. She wanted to be someone, not just a hidden toy. Plus, she had betrayed Tyrion in the trial so severely, she couldn't go back.

This is also probably what brought he to Tywins attention. His father had a weakness for women, his son has a weakness for women, what makes us think it skipped him?? Here was a beautiful girl, albeit a whore, who wanted and craved attention, so why would she NOT try to go after Tywin??

[Frey family reunion]

I'm of the opinion that Shae was one of Varys' spies from the very beginning. I also think that Tywin is not above using whores, but is above the idea of marrying them (something he was afraid that Tyrion would possibly do). It wouldn't suprise me if Varys smuggled her into Tywin's room with his consent. Tywin may have had his own motives, that in addition to using her sexually, he might have also decided he was going to question her about what Tyrion was up to.

In the meantime Varys sets everything in motion and steers Tyrion to Tywin's bedchamber so he would catch them in the act.

[Faradin]

Seems like it would be very difficult for Varys to set her up as a plant as far as timing, knowing just how long Tywin would be on the privy and such. I think it more likely that Tywin was just a secret whore monger and Varys used it to his advantage. Although it does seem kind of strange that Tywin would sleep with Shae especially after she helped destroy Tyrion, maybe he just has an irrational weakness when it comes to prostitutes.