Video Games: You Game Like a Young Man, With Nothing Held Back. Admirable, But Mistaken.

[Merentha]

Holy shit. Holy shit. Guys. The Walking Dead is AWESOME.

[haLobEnder]

Holy shit. Holy shit. Guys. The Walking Dead is AWESOME.

Yes it is. What episode are you on?

[Inigima]

Holy shit. Holy shit. Guys. The Walking Dead is AWESOME.

We did tell you.

[Merentha]

Yes it is. What episode are you on?

I had finished episode 1 when I posted that.

And, yeah, its just rare when someone tells me that a game is really good that it actually lives up to those expectations.

[The Anti-Targ]

The problem with having a gamet of endings though is it makes any future games rather difficult. I'm perfectly fine with ME3 being the end of Shepard's story (give that poor wo/man a break), but I want to see more games set in that universe that also have humans in them. That's rather hard to do if there's that many different possible endings. So having just one ending works for me. But I want it to be a good ending (and frankly I don't see the ending I suggest as all that bleak. Reapers are dead, galaxy is rebuilding, things will go back to normal. Shepard may or may not be dead, but either way s/he was successful and will be remembered as a hero).

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain springs to mind as a game series where the first game had a 2 choice ending. But the rest of the series was told on the basis of only one ending in Blood Omen. Granted Blood Omen was not originally conceived as a multi-game series, but they made it work OK. Love the LoK story much more than the ME story.

I think the Mass Effect series could continue post ME3 (rather than prequel) with one or other non-Borgian endings being chosen as canon and then fast forward a century or 2 when everyone's kinda lost the institutional memory of how the Reapers brought all the races together so that the fighting can start anew.

Still I'd like to see first contact wars and so on in a game as well. I'd kinda like to play a Turian hero trying to deal with the upstart xenophobic noobs from some planet whos name basically means dirt. What a weird name for a planet. It'd be like calling Tuchunka "Rubble". Not sure I like this new race with a bit of a manifest destiny attitude. Definietly gotta keep them off the council. Chuck 'em in with the Batarians and Vorcha I say.

[AndrewBaelish]

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain springs to mind as a game series where the first game had a 2 choice ending. But the rest of the series was told on the basis of only one ending in Blood Omen. Granted Blood Omen was not originally conceived as a multi-game series, but they made it work OK. Love the LoK story much more than the ME story.

I think the Mass Effect series could continue post ME3 (rather than prequel) with one or other non-Borgian endings being chosen as canon and then fast forward a century or 2 when everyone's kinda lost the institutional memory of how the Reapers brought all the races together so that the fighting can start anew.

Still I'd like to see first contact wars and so on in a game as well. I'd kinda like to play a Turian hero trying to deal with the upstart xenophobic noobs from some planet whos name basically means dirt. What a weird name for a planet. It'd be like calling Tuchunka "Rubble". Not sure I like this new race with a bit of a manifest destiny attitude. Definietly gotta keep them off the council. Chuck 'em in with the Batarians and Vorcha I say.

That actually sounds really good.

[Shryke]

My favourite suggested ending for renagade that I read was failing to complete the crucible, but the reapers still converging on earth unaware of this, then taking out the relay or the sun to destroy them all with the sacrifice of earth. Obviously that would have tried other less bleak alternatives as well, but I like that idea for the ending that gave the best results galaxy wide.

I thought going in that, given what I thought the Haelstrom thing was hinting at, that they were gonna blow up the Sun and destroy the reapers along with the Earth's solar system.

[Poobah]

Am I reading this right that the 3DS XL console doesn't come with a fucking power cable?

[Inigima]

Ahahaha I thought you were crazy but apparently outside of North America that's true. Hilarious. Nintendo is so fucking dumb.

I had finished episode 1 when I posted that.

And, yeah, its just rare when someone tells me that a game is really good that it actually lives up to those expectations.

I like to think that I am sufficiently hateful that when I give something a thumbs-up it's interpreted as deserving.

[Sivin]

Just watched a trailer for the new Tomb Raider. And it basically consisted of "Laura Croft gets beat up every 3 seconds". While it felt a little excessive, I also liked it. Heros should suffer, it builds character. I'm getting this game, looks like some damn-good characterization.

[Merentha]

Ahahaha I thought you were crazy but apparently outside of North America that's true. Hilarious. Nintendo is so fucking dumb.

I like to think that I am sufficiently hateful that when I give something a thumbs-up it's interpreted as deserving.

My only gripe so far is that (ep2 Walking Dead)

I can't start yelling at Lilly's dad for punching me and leaving me to die after I repeatedly risked my life to get him his nitro. Or yelling at Lilly about how her dad tried to kill me, so damn right he's going to make me upset. What the fuck, man.

[haLobEnder]

My only gripe so far is that (ep2 Walking Dead)

I can't start yelling at Lilly's dad for punching me and leaving me to die after I repeatedly risked my life to get him his nitro. Or yelling at Lilly about how her dad tried to kill me, so damn right he's going to make me upset. What the fuck, man.

Yeah, TWD is not exactly like an RPG in terms of the variability of the dialogue options, most are just slightly different ways of saying the same thing. Even when you are presented with choices they're usually binary choices: lie or tell the truth, save [blank] or save [blank].

I like and dislike the timer on the dialogue wheel in that it forces you to go with your gut reaction, but sometimes I don't have time to read/process all the responses open to me. I think I might play through the game again just letting the timer run out every time; I don't think I did that even once in my initial playthrough of the game.

Episode 3 was my favourite of the series, though I don't think there was a truly bad one of the bunch. I was sort of disappointed with episode 4 at first, but looking back at it, it wasn't so bad; It introduced one of my favourite characters of the series so far, for one thing.

Regarding the game ending though:

Anyone else think the villain reveal was a little too convenient/full circle? Like really, the dude abandons his car in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, survivors come along and take his stuff --for all they knew the occupants of the vehicle were dead, it would be foolish not to take it-- and he then holds a grudge on Lee specifically throughout the rest of the series? It was all a little too silly for me.

[Merentha]

Yeah, TWD is not exactly like an RPG in terms of the variability of the dialogue options, most are just slightly different ways of saying the same thing. Even when you are presented with choices they're usually binary choices: lie or tell the truth, save [blank] or save [blank].

I like and dislike the timer on the dialogue wheel in that it forces you to go with your gut reaction, but sometimes I don't have time to read/process all the responses open to me. I think I might play through the game again just letting the timer run out every time; I don't think I did that even once in my initial playthrough of the game.

Yeah. Its weird, because you're both playing Lee and also have to go with Lee's personality sometimes. Every so often, its just a little jarring, see, my spoilers. On the idea of letting things run out, I actually did it once on Hershel's farm. He was

asking me about how I'd gotten out of Atlanta and had seemingly caught me in a lie. I was really startled, froze, and just didn't answer the question.

It was a pretty fun story moment, and it'd be interesting to see how a totally silent Lee (except where forced) played out.

[Sci-2]

I'm not saying FPSs are good, that's entirely subjective. I'm saying you can't blame a company for staying with a successful formula that's making them well over a billion dollars every year, just for that game. I'm saying the problem is publishers because they're motivation is not to make an innovative, good product, it's to sell as many copies as possible.

I agree with this. People are buying the games, and are happy to do so. I think the good this thing is we have Kickstarter now so we can see more innovation, but I'm not sure how worthwhile innovation is to various companies.

[Fez]

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain springs to mind as a game series where the first game had a 2 choice ending. But the rest of the series was told on the basis of only one ending in Blood Omen. Granted Blood Omen was not originally conceived as a multi-game series, but they made it work OK. Love the LoK story much more than the ME story.

I think the Mass Effect series could continue post ME3 (rather than prequel) with one or other non-Borgian endings being chosen as canon and then fast forward a century or 2 when everyone's kinda lost the institutional memory of how the Reapers brought all the races together so that the fighting can start anew.

Still I'd like to see first contact wars and so on in a game as well. I'd kinda like to play a Turian hero trying to deal with the upstart xenophobic noobs from some planet whos name basically means dirt. What a weird name for a planet. It'd be like calling Tuchunka "Rubble". Not sure I like this new race with a bit of a manifest destiny attitude. Definietly gotta keep them off the council. Chuck 'em in with the Batarians and Vorcha I say.

I'm fine with a first contact story, or even a Rachni Wars/Krogan rebellion story (although I suspect EA wouldn't approve a AAA game that didn't have any humans in it at all); but I want to see future stuff as well. I agree that jumping forward a few hundred years is the best solution. I imagine that some fans would still be upset since certain choices from ME3 would have to be railroaded through (do the Geth still exist, was the Genophage cured, etc.), but if it can be done in an organic enough way it might not be so bad (like if you didn't cure the Genophage, the Krogran's still eventually adapt to it; the way they were starting to before Mordin's STG team altered it).

Although the question of, did Liara get pregnant in that final scene with Shepard? would need to get resolved and there's no easy way for that to happen. I guess they could go the Dragon Age route and never mention it again, but that's not satisfying at all. And I think, while somewhat common, stories with a protagonist trying to live up to the memory of a more famous parent still have the ability to have a fresh feeling compared to a lot of the usual archetypes. Personally, I think a game following (or at least having as one of the party members) Shepard's Asari daughter two or three hundred years after ME3 could be pretty awesome.

[PhoenixFlame]

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain springs to mind as a game series where the first game had a 2 choice ending. But the rest of the series was told on the basis of only one ending in Blood Omen. Granted Blood Omen was not originally conceived as a multi-game series, but they made it work OK. Love the LoK story much more than the ME story.

You just gave me warm fuzzies for mentioning Legacy of Kain. :wub:

I'm fine with a first contact story, or even a Rachni Wars/Krogan rebellion story (although I suspect EA wouldn't approve a AAA game that didn't have any humans in it at all); but I want to see future stuff as well. I agree that jumping forward a few hundred years is the best solution. I imagine that some fans would still be upset since certain choices from ME3 would have to be railroaded through (do the Geth still exist, was the Genophage cured, etc.), but if it can be done in an organic enough way it might not be so bad (like if you didn't cure the Genophage, the Krogran's still eventually adapt to it; the way they were starting to before Mordin's STG team altered it).

Although the question of, did Liara get pregnant in that final scene with Shepard? would need to get resolved and there's no easy way for that to happen. I guess they could go the Dragon Age route and never mention it again, but that's not satisfying at all. And I think, while somewhat common, stories with a protagonist trying to live up to the memory of a more famous parent still have the ability to have a fresh feeling compared to a lot of the usual archetypes. Personally, I think a game following (or at least having as one of the party members) Shepard's Asari daughter two or three hundred years after ME3 could be pretty awesome.

I don't think the Dragon Age storyline has been abandoned (Witch Hunt, after all). There just wasn't a reason for it to come up in DAII. My Warden has a pretty meaty stake in that storyline, so I sure hope it gets brought up in DA: Inquisition. Wishful thinking maybe. I had a vain hope that if DAI was on the same console generation, that we could see our previous characters as third party observers. Like, get bailed out of a mess by the Warden/Warden Commander from DAO or Awakening. Or suddenly find Hawke glaring at your character on the other end of the Murder Knife. But alas....

For Mass Effect, I'm guessing they'll just go with the red or blue ending (the green ending seems really weird to implement in a game) since a lot of people hated all 3 choices anyway (I know there's a 4th but it seemed like Bioware just grousing). Granted, a game set after a renegade Shep chose one particular ending...eeeeeesh. The First Contact War is awesome, but I dunno, it seems like a really self-contained story since we know how it ended.

On a different video game front, I am loving Crusader Kings II. Wild ride! My first King of Scotland's last act before he died was to legitimize his third-born grandson, a bastard. Suddenly all my vassals hated my firstborn son and put the Bastard Finlay on the throne. I'm guessing they thought they could control him. Ha! Finlay the First turned out to be a merciless bastard who let his father die in jail, and brought the nobles to heel. If you're going to be a tyrant, you might as well be a really fucking evil one. Still, after the first decade of his reign, with the next generation of vassals taking their places, things calmed down, Finlay was mega popular, fathered a bunch of kids, became King of Ireland, and got "the Great" added to his name. Alas, at age 60, Finlay was still leading from the front (being the best general in his kingdom), took a wound fighting for his wife's claim in Spain, and died pretty content despite the painful end. He left Jaime the First with a bunch of dukedoms and cash, so winning back the vassals was pretty easy. Jaime's got his sights on the Mann and Wales kingdoms.

Still, the biggest WTF moment was learning my son fathered a bastard off his sister, who was only back at court because her Norwegian hubby was a great Steward.

[Shryke]

Mass Effect was clearly written to not have a sequel. There's no way to write a game of epic scope and that has real meaningful choices (at least at the end, where all actual choices are shoved in games) and set it up for a sequel. Not without going "Fuck you, this is the canon ending". Which basically invalidates the second point from the last sentence.

[Sivin]

If Mass Effect hadn't been written for a sequel, Soveriegn would have been the only Reaper.

[Fez]

Mass Effect was clearly written to not have a sequel. There's no way to write a game of epic scope and that has real meaningful choices (at least at the end, where all actual choices are shoved in games) and set it up for a sequel. Not without going "Fuck you, this is the canon ending". Which basically invalidates the second point from the last sentence.

I agree. But that's a(nother) mistake by the writing staff, because EA was obviously going to want sequels. Just like with movies, its rare for new IPs to make the big bucks, franchises are everything.

As is, the only options are to set it far enough in the future where the possible differences in the ending can be mostly glossed over or just say "nope, this was the ending", and move along.

It is entirely possible to have a game with lots of choices still end in a place where future games are possible. It just requires that none of the choices be setting-altering and instead be more personal to the specific story being told.

[Shryke]

I agree. But that's a(nother) mistake by the writing staff, because EA was obviously going to want sequels. Just like with movies, its rare for new IPs to make the big bucks, franchises are everything.

I don't consider it a mistake to write something to be what you think is good for the story instead of to appeal to the desire of marketeers to milk an IP for all it's worth.

As is, the only options are to set it far enough in the future where the possible differences in the ending can be mostly glossed over or just say "nope, this was the ending", and move along.

It is entirely possible to have a game with lots of choices still end in a place where future games are possible. It just requires that none of the choices be setting-altering and instead be more personal to the specific story being told.

Right, but that's my point. You either undermine the illusion of choices by saying "Your choices don't count" or undermine the epicness of the narrative and your effect on it.

But Bioware wanted to have an epic story with epic consequences where you had real choices. And that means shitting all over sequel potential.

And I really don't see a problem with that.