Are Cat and UnCat considered the same character to you?

[Daphne23]

I am honestly surprised by the fact that the great majority of posters in this thread completely (or almost) separate Cat from UnCat, although it's nice to see that David Selig has a similar opinion. I see UnCat as a natural progression from Catelyn.

I agree, and I'm also glad that David Selig brought up the point about Cat maintaining the orphanage - this is something I only noticed on my last re-read, and it did affect my opinion of UnCat. It's also very poignant.

I do see a distinction between Cat and Uncat, but I don't think they should be regarded as two separate people. The main difference is that Uncat gives free rein to the feelings of vengeance and rage that Cat rigidly suppressed in life, but even then, as you noted, she doesn't abandon justice and her trials are at least as fair as those of the original BWB, if not fairer. (I can't see living Cat executing Pod, but it's true to say that his trial was strictly fair in a legal sense.) If you read the themes of justice and vengeance throughout Cat's storyline, it's evident that Uncat is a continuation of this internal conflict - with the opposite emotion now gaining precedence - rather than the complete flip-side of Cat.

I'm fascinated to find out if we're going to get an UnJon, and if so, what GRRM will do with him. I do think that having died at such a horrible moment has fixated Uncat's thoughts around revenge, just as Beric focused on his quest for Robert, and I wonder if Jon will have such a 'fixation' and if so what it will be - repudiating the Night's Watch? Becoming extra paranoid and distrustful?

[Brienne Of Bombay]

I think Cat And UnCat are essentially the same person. IMHO seeing her son butchered in front of her very eyes has made UnCat who she is.

[Bayard]

I am honestly surprised by the fact that the great majority of posters in this thread completely (or almost) separate Cat from UnCat, although it's nice to see that David Selig has a similar opinion.

I see UnCat as a natural progression from Catelyn. She was always a fierce woman and a fighter, ruthless when she had to be and very capable (it's not her fault people didn't listen to her or events beyond her control happened). In a very short while, her son becomes paraplegic, someone tries to assassinate him, she loses her husband, her two young sons, her home, her youngest daughter, her father, and sees her 12-year-old daughter married off to Tyrion Lannister. She then sees the last of her sons killed right in front of her, and is killed herself. She is thrown naked in the river where she spends days dead.

I mean, that is rough. Considering Catelyn's former traits and everything that's happened to her, I just think it's to be expected that she becomes fixated on revenge.

She still has the skills she did in life, and IMO she is actually doing a better job of escaping the authorities than Beric, who was killed, like, 9 times on the job. She is running a tight ship with the BWB. I know people think the BWB has fallen with her but they were always about revenge. They just had fake trials ("ok dude if you beat me in a duel you are free to go. psych! I have a flaming sword! also we still get to steal all your stuff") and fake knighting and religious ceremonies so it was a bit more pallatable to some. I, while still not supporting the BWB, prefer them to be upfront about their revenge. Anyway, I digress. If she wants to kill Lannisters and Freys, I think that is pretty understandable from her POV, and from there it's natural that she'd include in the bunch Tyrion Lannister's own squire and her former sworn shield who is now running around doing stuff for Jaime Lannister.

I always had a high opinion of Cat's character and skills, so I'm not surprised that when she loses everything and channels all her grief and hate into a pursuit of vengeance she becomes the feared Lady Stoneheart, who is at the very least, a force to be reckoned.

Well done :bowdown:

That's exactly how I see Cat, the same person, but who acts according to what has happened to her. Most of the people judge Un-Cat by 3 things: the death of Merrett Frey which is seen through his eyes, so it's tough to read, the trial of Pod and Brienne and the fact that we stop seeing her POVs. So, we don't see her thoughts anymore, that doesn't mean that she is different, it's only Martin's choice not to present a dead-POV. So, she killed Merrett Frey... well he was guilty. She tries to hang Pod and Brienne... are they innocent? not really. First Pod is 12, Loras was a knight at 14, Robb became king at 15.... he's not that young by Westeros standards, and the stupid boy, admitted he not only fought for the Lannisters, but killed on the Blackwater. Cat is waging a war, she can kill enemy soldiers... there is no Geneva Convention. The BWB don't have a fortress, a prison to keep enemy soldiers... it's either hanging or letting them go.

Brienne looks like a traitor, she has a Lannister sword, she has a paper from the king, she is joined by Pod a Westerlander and Hyle Hunt who under Randyll Tarly has been hunting the BWB and hagning them. So, from the evidence she should be hanged, but what do you know? Cat lets her go, gives her a chance to redeem herself.

The problem is we see Cat only on 2 official occasions, 2 trials... of course she is serious, harsh, she must be. Think about her earlier POVs, she is very careful how she appears to others, she doesn't let her emotions show in front of other lords. Why do people assume that now she is different?? The old Cat would do the same. We know she protects an orphanage, so she still cares about the smallfolk. In the Northern Conspiracy theory, she has a powerful role to play.... it is thought that she, and other Northern lords: Mormonts, Glovers, Reeds, (Manderly?) is working to put Jon Snow on the throne. So, I don't see an Un-Cat, only a Cat in mourning. I hope she sees her children before she dies for good.

[RhaenysBee]

Absolutely. Beric Dondarrion didn't become a whole new character either, every time he was resurrected.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think tthey are two different characters. I essentially do see UnCat as an extension of Cat, but not AS Cat.

UnCat is frozen in a state of fury and vengeance, whereas Catelyn was such a wonderfully written character.

[JaegrM]

I think that UnCat is Cat´s id in the moment before her death, if that makes any sense. UnCat is an echo of the strongest feelings Cat felt before she died:....

¹ I am not sure if Cat´s insanity was only temporary or permanent. If she had survived, maybe she would have gotten better eventually? She is a very strong woman but also faced incredible losses. It is hard to tell.

I myself think UnCat may SLOWLY or SLIGHTLY be reverting back to a more Cat-like mentaility given that she didn't immediatly hang Brienne, Pod (ESPECIALLY Pod) and Hyle when compared to the Frey we saw them hang earlier.

Wishful thinking? Maybe.

[Lady Lea]

The problem is we see Cat only on 2 official occasions, 2 trials... of course she is serious, harsh, she must be. Think about her earlier POVs, she is very careful how she appears to others, she doesn't let her emotions show in front of other lords.

Huh, that is a very interesting point. Cat often put on a stone exterior when dealing with lords or in other official occasions. UnCat probably does the same. I mean, I doubt she likes to sit around the fire and sing songs when no one is looking, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that she is more solemn during the BWB's "official" occasions.

Oh and another thing: UnCat is, apparently, still looking for Sansa and Arya, right? So that's one thing she's doing (not counting the orphanage) that is not about revenge.