Are Cat and UnCat considered the same character to you?

[Tagganaro]

No, they're very different to me. UnCat is ruthless and cruel. Cat never had that. While UnCat seems to be acting rationally from what little we've seen, I remain doubtful because she very clearly went insane right before her death, and furthermore remained dead for a very long time before being resurrected (to the point that Thoros didn't even want to revive her).

I also think we have Thoros's words and the listing in the appendix to show us that UnCat has changed the BWB a little bit to the point that it is "broken". For me, being willing to hang Podrick Payne is proof enough that all is not right in Uncat's head, and clearly shows that she is much different than Cat.

So no, I definitely consider Cat to have died in the RW and UnCat to be a different character. I hope she is able to get her revenge though and die peacefully afterwards.

[Booknerd2]

I think coupled with how it is implied that she went mad watching Rob die. Scratching at her face, pleading to Ned, and after thinking she lost her husband and all her children, and with the shadiness of the Rhillor revival, she is not really Cat Tully Stark from before. And when I think of how much of the old her is left, I can never answer myself. Constantly changing my mind. It is a tough question.

I don't care what she looks like or that she came back from the dead. Old Beric seemed like a sweet enough fellow, I am more concerned about her mental state before and after Robb died in front of her, really the 100 other terrible things that befell her even before that, had to be working on her pyscologically.

Which makes for a very angry, vengeful, and vindictive Uncat; not like Beric, who only seemed to have memory issues. And lost his good looks too of course.

BTW, Martin ever answer a question regarding Uncat?

[*Ceallach*]

No, they're very different to me. UnCat is ruthless and cruel. Cat never had that.

Not sure about that, Cat had her ruthless moments for sure. Like refusing to have Ned's bastard stay at his home of 14 years? telling him it should've been you?

Note - i actually love Cat and can understand a lot of where her head's at.

But i agree with you that they are different - no way in the seven hells would Cat have hurt Pod before.

[Booknerd2]

I could never decide if Cat was more cruel to Jon or more petty, jealous, or paranoid?

Jealous, meaning, he's a reminder of Ned being with another woman. Or so she thinks.

[David Selig]

No, they're very different to me. UnCat is ruthless and cruel. Cat never had that.

Ruthless (though nothing out of the ordinary by Westeros standards), sure. But cruel? I don't see it. Why do you think so?

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I could never decide if Cat was more cruel to Jon or more petty, jealous, or paranoid?

Jealous, meaning, he's a reminder of Ned being with another woman. Or so she thinks.

Well, she wasn't cruel except for the "it should have been you" thing, and that was one time. Other times she ignored him, which I think was damaging but was not a cruel action on her part. It wasn't petty or jealous of her either. He was a slap in the face by the mores of Westeros and it's not exactly surprising she didn't want to fawn on her husband's bastard. Not to mention that she was worried about her children's inheritance in regards to Jon having children.

[JonisnoGarySnow]

Ruthless (though nothing out of the ordinary by Westeros standards), sure. But cruel? I don't see it. Why do you think so?

I think hanging Pod, with no seeming reason, was cruel (even if it wasn't gone through with). What did that twelve-year-old boy do?

[Booknerd2]

I guess she was more passive-aggressive towards Jon maybe? Also, I always wonder if it was more her choice to not bother Jon or was it more she knew if she was an outright jerk to Jon, Ned would have something to say to her about it?

But, I agree, hands down the comment over Bran was NASTY!

That was just ugly.

[Tagganaro]

I think hanging Pod, with no seeming reason, was cruel (even if it wasn't gone through with). What did that twelve-year-old boy do?

Ruthless (though nothing out of the ordinary by Westeros standards), sure. But cruel? I don't see it. Why do you think so?

Yes, what JinGS said. Otherwise, I wouldn't say cruel, but for me that was the inexcusable thing that delineated her as cruel.

[Tagganaro]

Not sure about that, Cat had her ruthless moments for sure. Like refusing to have Ned's bastard stay at his home of 14 years? telling him it should've been you?

Note - i actually love Cat and can understand a lot of where her head's at.

But i agree with you that they are different - no way in the seven hells would Cat have hurt Pod before.

That's a discussion for another one of those 100 Jon Snow/Cat threads lol. But I'd say for me that wasn't ruthless, it was an emotional moment and something Cat very much regretted saying.

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I guess she was more passive-aggressive towards Jon maybe? Also, I always wonder if it was more her choice to not bother Jon or was it more she knew if she was an outright jerk to Jon, Ned would have something to say to her about it?

But, I agree, hands down the comment over Bran was NASTY!

That was just ugly.

Passive aggressive is what I got out of it. She just distanced herself from him, couldn't force herself to love him, and shot him some dirty looks. It wasn't incredibly great, but she had no reason to care for the kid, he wasn't her child and there were many other adults in Winterfell to take care of him.

But the "it should have been you" was completely out of line and cruel, I do agree. But it wasn't an every day thing. She usually ignored him.

[Le Cygne]

Different. Catelyn wouldn't have treated Brienne this way.

[Booknerd2]

I do always wonder though if there was ever an incident where Ned had to give her the Ned look, and tell her to leave him be. (Jon)

Offscreen from the book of course.

Or much like when she brought up Jon's mother, she just knew enough not to push Ned regarding Jon either.

[JonisnoGarySnow]

I do always wonder though if there was ever an incident where Ned had to give her the Ned look, and tell her to leave him be. (Jon)

Offscreen from the book of course.

Or much like when she brought up Jon's mother, she just knew enough not to push Ned regarding Jon either.

There is a SSM where he says that Cat didn't verbally or physically abuse Jon, she just distanced herself from him and made sure that his place as a bastard was clear.

[Saint Arya]

Yes, I see UnCat as Cat with zero empathy or sympathy left, only a desire of revenge left to feed her fiery soul.

[DavosSeaworthy]

I see them as the same person, UnCat believes she has nothing left. Ned, Robb, her father, all dead. Arya's been missing for a long time and presumed dead, Sansa was alive at the time of the Red Wedding, but she may have recieved word that she is now missing, and she has been told that Bran and Rickon are dead. Here she is brought back to life with nothing left to live for, but her vengence. Of course it makes sense that she would become ruthless, she sees her only task left as killing all those who have wronged her and her family.

[Faint]

I've never differentiated the two and see little reason to do so.

[Spotted Cat]

I've never differentiated the two and see little reason to do so.

how about the unjustified way of killing anyone who is remotely connected with the freys or lannisters?

cat didnt kill tyrion did she? she just took him into custody.

uncat would have the imp swinging from a tree in a heartbeat (well im nt sure her heart is beating in the moment)

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Not at all. It bugs me when UnCat's actions get pinned on Cat as marks against her character. Catelyn died at the Red Wedding. Lady Stoneheart was born two days later.

[Castellan]

She seems to me to be Catelyn as frozen in her last moments - bent on revenge as the only thing that is salvagable from her tragedies. I am sure people could end up like this, without magic, if angry enough about what has happened to them. But maybe UnCat has more of Cat hidden inside her than it appears so far.