Mr Hodor Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I consider them completely differentcat is kind and caring (except for Jon) while Uncat is just out for revenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Certainly, but what caused the change in personality - the magic of resurrection gone awry, or the events of the RW? In other words, suppose Cat conventionally survived the throat-slashing/river-dump, and there was no need for zombification. Would she still have Uncat's personality? I think it's very possible she would.No, she wouldn't. Thoros explicitly told Beric he wouldn't resurrect Cat because she had been dead too long to resurrect properly. While the events of the Red Wedding certainly play a huge part in the personality shift, I have to assume the physical nature of her resurection screwed up what's left of her mind as well.Obviously Cat went through a really traumatic event, but based on what we've seen, she still has most of her memories and shows enough competence as the leader that it's clear she has a good grasp on reality and is not insane. True, but her complete lack of empathy, or even willingness to listen to her former sworn sword, would imply a massive change in personality, to a degree that the two characters don't behave at all in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 UnCat is Cat taken in extremis. She was a bit too overemotional, vengeful and overprotective already, and not too forgiving. Now after thinking that everyone is dead she goes hardcore. And even less logical than when alive.Jaime may still survive, though, if he convinces UnCat that Sansa poisoned Joff (and thus avenged Ned) and that she's AWOL. BwB members may be able to corrobrate (as well as to refer to Jaime's solution of Riverrun and Raventree).OTOH UnCat doesn't seem to be ready to listen to reason. Brienne proves it. Maybe Jaime would be a catalyst for someone from BwB to off her? After all reformed Jaime and "Founders" of BwB have a lot in common now - in the goal, if not in philosophy and methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The UnCat is Cat with a sliced throat, after losing all her children and husband, I would expect her to change. I don't think being a half-dead zombie changed her though people did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 OTOH UnCat doesn't seem to be ready to listen to reason. Brienne proves it. Maybe Jaime would be a catalyst for someone from BwB to off her? After all reformed Jaime and "Founders" of BwB have a lot in common now - in the goal, if not in philosophy and methods.It's hard to say what GRRM has planned for UnCat, since she has already had a sizable off-screen impact but has had little time to interact with any POV characters. It seems highly unlikely she'll listen to any kind of reason, but then again, how many members of the BWD would take anything Jaime says seriously? Of the group that's still around, only Thoros has expressed dismay at UnCat's methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 OTOH BwB has other sources of information. The minstrel for example was direct witness to Riverrun deal, Brienne looking for a maid of noble birth 13yo, news from KingsLanding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I don't consider them the same character. When I think of Catelyn I still think of her as dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys_The Transformed Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Catelyn has ended as a POV in Red Wedding.The UnCat is another dimension entirely. UnCat took birth from Cat, but is no longer Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talvivaara Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I see them mostly as different characters. UnCat has some shades of Cat left in her I think, but death changed her so much that I don't consider them the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGriffonReborn Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 If I find out that Pod is dead, I'm going to hate UnCat, not Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaele Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Haven't really seen enough of her, but from the few instances of UnCat reader time, she is a shadow of Cat. She lost her sense of remorse, and is focused solely on the revenge of her son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha the Demon Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I don't see them as the same person at all. Catelyn suffered a mental breakdown in the moments before her death; and then she was dead for two or more days before Dondarrion revived her. I would argue diminished capacity, to say the least. Dondarrion's personality was unchanged by his revival, but as I recall, he had been revived quickly after death; he didn't spend two days as a corpse in a river. She's not all there; and what is there is definitely not sane. I see very little of Cat in her. I doubt that Catelyn Stark would have hung Podrick...Lady Stoneheart is a warped, twisted echo of Catelyn Stark, not Cat herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 She's the same character in the same way that Arya before KL and Arya after KL, or Theon pre and post torture, or Jaime pre and post mutilation, are the same character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 And how can you tell from what, 4 pages in total she appears in?Absolutely. We need to see her do more than order hangings to see what makes her tick. She's going after Freys the same way she went after Tyrion when Littlefinger framed him for the attempt on Bran's life, so that part isn't different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Dagoghlor Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 What few good qualities Catelyn possessed were destroyed when she was resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Not to me. UnCat is a shattered, moldering, very angry piece of Catelyn Stark. She isnt the true Catelyn Stark. Catelyn Stark died at the Red Wedding. The last part of what would have remained of the real Catelyn was pulled out of the Trident by a pack of wolves. What woke up by Beric was something...else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The UnCat is Cat with a sliced throat, after losing all her children and husband, I would expect her to change. I don't think being a half-dead zombie changed her though people did that. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Posts Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I don't think two chapters is enough to truly judge this sort of thing.But for what it's worth, I feel like at this point, even if Cat somehow escaped the Red Wedding and she herself didn't die, that she would be exactly the same as UnCat. There's no way that someone in Cat's position wouldn't be turned black cold from the destruction of her family, her cause and her lover. Especially considering nearly everything is her fault, and she knows it.Actually, if anything, I feel like this deep evil side to Cat is the side that Littlefinger fell in love with. I think they're both just evil people, even if Cat has a much stronger sense of courtesy and even if she has loyalty to her family. Not that everyone close to Cat has died/she thinks to have died and/or betrayed her/she thinks to have betrayed her, she really has nothing to lose and has kind of become just pure emotion and hate.I mean come on, this is the woman who abducted Tyrion on a whim because she was mad. The woman who couldn't get over Jon Snow after 17 years, when realistically, most people would be over it by then to an extent. And the POVs into non-stark characters(mainly Tyrion thinking about Cat, and Theon in ACoK reminiscing about Cat, both suggest that she has a natural air of malevolence and creepiness - most fans just overlook this because all the stark perspectives, obviously, don't consider the mother/wife/herself to be creepy or evil.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Lady Stoneheart is not the same character as Catelyn Stark.I'm curious to see why GRRM decided to resurrect her. There has to be a reason that he didn't just leave her dead. To kill Jaime Lannister? Maybe, but he is already mamed and weak, anybody could kill him at this point.There should have been more Brienne in A Dance With Dragons.This is somewhat off-topic but does anybody else think it's going to take a lot longer than 2 novels for GRRM to finish the series? Arya is just beginning her training as a one of the Faceless Men. Bran just started his greenseeing training. Cersei just got a second life from Varys. The Battle of Winterfell and Slaver's Bay have not been fought, I think it's unlikely that we will see two wars fought by the same parties in the same book. Jon, if alive, is in rough shape. Samwell has only begun his training as a maester. A lot of these story lines have yet to hit their climax, and the way GRRM writes I don't see him wrapping up these stories in the next 2 editions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Especially considering nearly everything is her fault, and she knows it.Hahaha, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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