Poorer region: North or Dorne?

[John Doe]

Dorne. Both regions are not very fertile, but the North has some silver mines in Manderlys' posession and a bigger port than Dorne has. The dornish have fruits and use spices, and we didn't even hear about any kind of big trade with the spices, so there are really only the fruits as trading goods left.

[LordQorgyle]

Dorne. Both regions are not very fertile, but the North has some silver mines in Manderlys' posession and a bigger port than Dorne has. The dornish have fruits and use spices, and we didn't even hear about any kind of big trade with the spices, so there are really only the fruits as trading goods left.

But we know that they export citrus fruits, olives, pomegranates and the best horses in the seven kingdoms and it isn't certain but i think they also produce spices, since in the middle age/renaissance spices were more valuable than gold and the Dornish alimentation is based on them i doubt that they only import it

[Municipal Engines]

The key thing Dorne has going for it is infrastructure and where its industry and trade networks are centred. They're all along the coasts and the rivers, clustered together. This makes it very easy to make, ship and sell things. Planky Town is a prime example, being the trading hub of the Greenblood; all produce made along the river and its vassal streams can be floated down the river and traded at delta towns. Dorne does have its position on the crossroads of the Narrow Sea and the Summer Sea going for it too, which puts it in an opportune place for trade.

In comparison the North's infrastructure is crap. This is the main reason why the North is considered poor and underpopulated. It doesnt't really have anything major connecting the east and the west; the White Knife and the Kingsroad are likely the largest and busiest arteries of trade but they only go north-south. Timber and fur from the Wolfswood are likely shipped down the White Knife to be sold in White Harbour. The same can be said of the other rivers in the North. But we've seen that a lot of the people aren't situated along these rivers, and they'd need to get a lot of their produce (the North is exceptionally rich in timber, furs, hide and wool) to the market via roads that are likely poorly maintained. In fact, Barrowton (situated on a river leading to the Sunset Sea) and White Knife are really the only places mentioned in the books that are good for exports (though there are likely tons more towns and villages situated on the coast and rivers) as the road through the Neck is hardly an attractive or adequate trade route.

That said, the sheer abundance of these items and the demand for them in markets around the world will make the North quite wealthy, though a wealth spread out over many people and many houses. How much cash is then sunk into upkeep of roads, castles, armies/guards and settlements I am not sure of, though it is likely quite a bit; from what we've seen of the Northern houses and the culture of the North in general, they are a practical and thrifty people. Dorne has luxury goods of exotic fruit, spice and wine as its most notable and profitable trade goods and though there is a market for this, they don't have the ability to produce it in the same abundance as the North can with its goods, not to mention they have significant competition from the Free Cities.

The untapped wealth of the North is likewise immense. I'm not sure if useful metals like tin, iron and copper are mentioned in the books, but there is likely a fair bit of mining for that going in. Silver has been mentioned primarily as a Manderly exlusive product, but looking at the hills in the upper Rills and the vast mountains north of Winterfell, there is likely an abundance of metals there. If they had better infrastructure they'd also be able to produce and sell more of the aforementioned fur, hide, wool and timber.

[Municipal Engines]

But we know that they export citrus fruits, olives, pomegranates and the best horses in the seven kingdoms and it isn't certain but i think they also produce spices, since in the middle age/renaissance spices were more valuable than gold and the Dornish alimentation is based on them i doubt that they only import it

Their tiny arable land is divided between producing all these goods though. They can't produce them in abundance. Also, I think the fire in their food comes in part from peppers, so they have that going for them too (this can also be taken to mean that rather than producing spices they produce chilli powders). They also don't export their horses and seem to guard them quite jealously. You don't see anybody outside Dorne with sand steeds after all.

House Yronwood I think is mentioned as either the richest or the most powerful of House Martell's vassals. This is due to their fertile valleys and meadows and riverbanks, as well as their mining in the Red Mountains.

Speaking of the Red Mountains, do we know much of the industry of them? I assume there must be some mining at least.

[John Doe]

Planky Town is not a great trading center. Sunspear is barely even considered a city, and the largest town they have in Dorne. And their population is even smaller than the northern.

[Municipal Engines]

Planky Town is not a great trading center. Sunspear is barely even considered a city, and the largest town they have in Dorne. And their population is even smaller than the northern.

True but they're the biggest and busiest Dorne's got.

[LordQorgyle]

Planky Town is not a great trading center. Sunspear is barely even considered a city, and the largest town they have in Dorne. And their population is even smaller than the northern.

But the products they export are expensier than the North, and it is true that Dorne doesn't have a true city but they have at least 4 towns(Shadow city, Planky Town, Godsgrace and Vaith) while the North has one city(White harbour) and a town (Barrowtown)

[Municipal Engines]

But the products they export are expensier than the North, and it is true that Dorne doesn't have a true city but they have at least 4 towns(Shadow city, Planky Town, Godsgrace and Vaith) while the North has one city(White harbour) and a town (Barrowtown)

To be fair, there is mention of numerous towns that haven't been explicitly named and/or placed on the maps or in the books all throughout Westeros. It's best to assume that the maps we have are incomplete when it comes to settlements.

Also, don't underestimate the value of quality fur and hide, which the North has in abundance. That shit's pricey.

[The Wolves]

Dorne is the poorer region.

The North has White Harbour, wood, wool, silver mines, more fertile land(not much) a bigger population and close to Braavos.

Dorne has its exotic fruit and spices and Planky Town.

[LordQorgyle]

Dorne is the poorer region.

The North has White Harbour, wood, wool, silver mines, more fertile land(not much) a bigger population and close to Braavos.

Dorne has its exotic fruit and spices and Planky Town.

exotic fruits and spices are far more value than everything the Northerns have

[LordQorgyle]

And if you compare the lifestyle between the nobles in both regions the Dornish have a much more wealthier lifestyle than the Northerners, the only house in North that we could compare to the Dornish are the Manderlys

[Lady Blackmont]

Remember all the towns the King's company saw on the kingsroad in AGoT?

There are thousands of unnamed villages and quasi-towns throughout Westeros.

[The Wolves]

exotic fruits and spices are far more value than everything the Northerns have

More than wood and silver?

[Lady Blackmont]

exotic fruits and spices are far more value than everything the Northerns have

False. Look at the Tsardom of Russia, a similar economy based on furs, grains, and timber, and they were racking in wealth selling to their Western European neighbors.

A few quality spices are never going to out perform the sheer enormity of northern resources.

[The Wolves]

And if you compare the lifestyle between the nobles in both regions the Dornish have a much more wealthier lifestyle than the Northerners, the only house in North that we could compare to the Dornish are the Manderlys

I think that's more by choice and the only Northern house we see that's really poor is the Mormonts.

Even the Starks at the beginning of AGOT who are the richest family in the North is not flashy or throws their wealth around.

[Lady Blackmont]

The North does not allow for excess. Winter is coming, and wasting valuable resources on luxuries is not part of their culture.

[LordQorgyle]

False. Look at the Tsardom of Russia, a similar economy based on furs, grains, and timber, and they were racking in wealth selling to their Western European neighbors.

A few quality spices are never going to out perform the sheer enormity of northern resources.

Spices in the middle age and renaissance were more valuable than gold, Portugal was the richest country in Europe because of the spices imported from India, and the North doesn´t have that many resources, they have silver in white harbour and the North is largely uncultivated..

[Lady Blackmont]

Spices in the middle age and renaissance were more valuable than gold, Portugal was the richest country in Europe because of the spices imported from India, and the North doesn´t have that many resources, they have silver in white harbour and the North is largely uncultivated..

I never said they weren't, I did say that the quantity of Northern goods overmatches that of Dornish ones. Also, we know of foreign ships performing most of the trade, not Dorne. The money here is from transportation not cultivation. India wasn't exactly reaping the benefits from the trade.

As for use of arable land, that point is null. 1/10 of Russian soil might be in use, but it will still outperform the entirety of Spanish crops.

[Municipal Engines]

Spices in the middle age and renaissance were more valuable than gold, Portugal was the richest country in Europe because of the spices imported from India, and the North doesn´t have that many resources, they have silver in white harbour and the North is largely uncultivated..

Portugal was rich because it had a monopoly on certain spices. Dorne, if it does produce spices (this isn't mentioned or supported by the text) has to compete with trade from Summer Isles, the Free Cities and further east, and they do not have enough productive land to do so.

The North is mentioned to have timber, wool, metals, hide and fur in abundance.

[LordQorgyle]

Portugal was rich because it had a monopoly on certain spices. Dorne, if it does produce spices (this isn't mentioned or supported by the text) has to compete with trade from Summer Isles, the Free Cities and further east, and they do not have enough productive land to do so.

The North is mentioned to have timber, wool, metals, hide and fur in abundance.

Wrong the Arabs also did it same with the Italians and later the Dutch, and we don't know about the abundance of metal, we know that white harbour has silver but we don't know how many, on the other side we know that the dornish wine is selled across the free cities, the same with their fruits