Poorer region: North or Dorne?

[Barty]

Quite possibly the Dornish have a higher per capita income but the North has a higher GDP. The North is huge - higher population, higher arable land, silver, a major city, lumber, fur etc.

[LordQorgyle]

I think that's more by choice and the only Northern house we see that's really poor is the Mormonts.

Even the Starks at the beginning of AGOT who are the richest family in the North is not flashy or throws their wealth around.

The mountain clans are poor, the same with the cragnnomen, the Umbers and the Karstarks look poor too

[Barty]

The mountain clans are poor, the same with the cragnnomen, the Umbers and the Karstarks look poor too

The mountain Clans aren't even a House. The Umbers and Karstarks manage to gather almost 2.5k men each (all very well armed and armored). Thats about 62.5% of what the Freys could gather and the Freys are supposed to be filthy rich. I also didnt see any difference between Frey equipment and Karstark equipment.

[LordQorgyle]

The mountain Clans aren't even a House. The Umbers and Karstarks manage to gather almost 2.5k men each (all very well armed and armored). Thats about 62.5% of what the Freys could gather and the Freys are supposed to be filthy rich. I also didnt see any difference between Frey equipment and Karstark equipment.

By the wiki the Northerners use mail instead of plate, and being able to gather a great number of men doesn't mean you're rich, The Florents can only raise 2000 man and i doubt they are poorer than the Umbers or Karstarks

[Fat Mac]

If tWoIaF region maps are anything to go on (an I don't see why they wouldn't be) Dorne also produces an excessive amount of olives it seems. Now, I don't know what the going rate for olives would be, but it should be noted.

Dorne seems to produce more luxury items: wine, citrus etc. It also has three towns, according to the map: Planky Town, Vaith and Godsgrace.

None of this is saying its more wealthy than the North, but whereas the North seems to produce less luxurious items in bulk, Dorne likely produces more luxurious items in smaller quantities.

[Municipal Engines]

Wrong the Arabs also did it same with the Italians and later the Dutch, and we don't know about the abundance of metal, we know that white harbour has silver but we don't know how many, on the other side we know that the dornish wine is selled across the free cities, the same with their fruits

Note that I said certain spices. Do you even wholly read what people write?

Yes Dornish wine is sold across the Free Cities, and their fruit. But their land is small and split between growing grapes, olives, pomegranates and citrus. I'll grant you the point on the metal, but I was merely extrapolating the possibility of an abundance of metals due to the geography. Northern timber, fur, hide and wool are also sold across the Free Cities. That is the nature of trade. It's often not the people and companies who sell a few luxury goods that are the wealthiest, but people who sell an abundance of basic, high-demand goods which is exactly what the North sells.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Being able to raise lots of men by default means you are rich. How do you think they feed, supply and transport those men?

And for a Northern House to supply 2000 men to an army it means they have to feed, supply and transport them for far longer, given the immense distances they have to cover to just get to the battlefield.

So if it costs a silver a day to support a man, a northern lord has to spend 30 silvers per man to get to the battlefield vs say 10 silvers per man for a southron lord who had to cover only a third of that distance with his men.

So for the Karstarks to send 2000 men south of the Neck it almost certainly means they are significantly richer than the Florents who can send 2000 men to Storms End for example.

The limit on troop numbers is not population size. It is wealth and logistics.

[Lady Blackmont]

Look at the position of Karhold on the map, they have unrestricted access to enormous fishing grounds.

Not to mention having all the advantages of other northern houses.

As for the Umbers, they have a giant (hee hee) demesne, probably equally productive, compared to the average southern fief, due to size alone.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

By the wiki the Northerners use mail instead of plate, and being able to gather a great number of men doesn't mean you're rich, The Florents can only raise 2000 man and i doubt they are poorer than the Umbers or Karstarks

The wiki is often wrong. Furthermore, mail is actually more expensive than plate.

[LordQorgyle]

Being able to raise lots of men by default means you are rich. How do you think they feed, supply and transport those men?

And for a Northern House to supply 2000 men to an army it means they have to feed, supply and transport them for far longer, given the immense distances they have to cover to just get to the battlefield.

So if it costs a silver a day to support a man, a northern lord has to spend 30 silvers per man to get to the battlefield vs say 10 silvers per man for a southron lord who had to cover only a third of that distance with his men.

So for the Karstarks to send 2000 men south of the Neck it almost certainly means they are significantly richer than the Florents who can send 2000 men to Storms End for example.

The limit on troop numbers is not population size. It is wealth and logistics.

Not necessarily, the Northerners had the support of the Riverlands, and probably got food from them, and from plunder..

And i doubt that the Karstarks are richer than the Florents,

If what you say is an absolute true then The North is richer than The Westerlands since Tywin's host as the same size as Robb's

[Lady Blackmont]

Tywin's host is only half the Westerlands strength.

And Tully support does not explain how they raised and armored the men in the first place.

[LordQorgyle]

Being able to raise lots of men by default means you are rich. How do you think they feed, supply and transport those men?

And for a Northern House to supply 2000 men to an army it means they have to feed, supply and transport them for far longer, given the immense distances they have to cover to just get to the battlefield.

So if it costs a silver a day to support a man, a northern lord has to spend 30 silvers per man to get to the battlefield vs say 10 silvers per man for a southron lord who had to cover only a third of that distance with his men.

So for the Karstarks to send 2000 men south of the Neck it almost certainly means they are significantly richer than the Florents who can send 2000 men to Storms End for example.

The limit on troop numbers is not population size. It is wealth and logistics.

Not necessarily, the Northerners had the support of the Riverlands, and probably got food from them, and from plunder..

And i doubt that the Karstarks are richer than the Florents,

If what you say is an absolute true then The North is richer than The Westerlands since Tywin's host as the same size as Robb's

Note that I said certain spices. Do you even wholly read what people write?

Yes Dornish wine is sold across the Free Cities, and their fruit. But their land is small and split between growing grapes, olives, pomegranates and citrus. I'll grant you the point on the metal, but I was merely extrapolating the possibility of an abundance of metals due to the geography. Northern timber, fur, hide and wool are also sold across the Free Cities. That is the nature of trade. It's often not the people and companies who sell a few luxury goods that are the wealthiest, but people who sell an abundance of basic, high-demand goods which is exactly what the North sells.

We don't know in what abundance the North sells is wools or timber,it doesn't seem to me that it is highly demanded

[Barty]

By the wiki the Northerners use mail instead of plate, and being able to gather a great number of men doesn't mean you're rich, The Florents can only raise 2000 man and i doubt they are poorer than the Umbers or Karstarks

According to the description of the Frey men in the books even they used mail. There is no difference in equipment when comparing Karstark men to Frey men.

[Lady Blackmont]

The wiki is often wrong. Furthermore, mail is actually more expensive than plate.

In all fairness, plate is nearly always placed on top of mail. Anyone who can purchase plate is also equipping their army with mail.

[Lady Blackmont]

We don't know in what abundance the North sells is wools or timber,it doesn't seem to me that it is highly demanded

There are no trees in Braavos, what do you expect them to burn?

Learn your history, furs are very, very, lucrative.

[LordQorgyle]

There are no trees in Braavos, what do you expect them to burn?

Learn your history, furs are very, very, lucrative.

The North isn't the only place that sells wood,

[Bright Blue Eyes]

In all fairness, plate is nearly always placed on top of mail. Anyone who can purchase plate is also equipping their army with mail.

Not full plate.

Westeros is currently in the transition phase from mail to full plate.

[Municipal Engines]

The North isn't the only place that sells wood,

But it sells it in great variety and great scale. Just as Dorne isn't the only place that sells fruit and wine.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The North isn't the only place that sells wood,

Westeros is full of forests. Snakewood in the Vale, the Forests of Qohor, the Kingswood in the Crownlands and the Rainwood in the Stormlands are all as around the same distance (if not closer) than the forests of the North.

It is going to be a dozen or so more centuries before the North gets that Monopoly on wood.

[Pod The Rod]

Qohor isn't in Westeros. It's further away from Dorne than the North is.