What characters have you changed your opinion on?

[James Arryn]

I think we should stop here, we've made about as much headway as a pair of saguaro cacti and I'm not awake enough to delve into philosophy ^.^

Done and done. Although some would suggest a soporific state would lead to better dialogue.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

Tyrion: Like others I really enjoyed Tyrion in GoT but as the books went on I gradually began to dislike him until ADWD which killed any sympathy or regard for him now.

Dany: I also liked Dany in GoT and gradually began to not care about her until ADWD killed that too.

Catelyn: With Catelyn I was actually very neutral towards her but the more POVs she had the less I liked her until I flat out hated her by the RW.

Jaime: I didn't care for Jaime at first but now I like him.

Arya: I wanted to give Arya a shot because she's a Stark and written in a way as to be more sympathetic to readers but lately I've been exposed to a ton of tomboy female protagonists that made her come off as a cliche to me and I can't help but hate her. It's probably why I liked Sansa to begin with (and still do) even if she was a ditz.

[Arkantos]

Done and done. Although some would suggest a soporific state would lead to better dialogue.

Some would also suggest that being high/drunk would, but I wouldn't trust them.

I find it hard to articulate my thoughts when tired... Maths, animation, modelling - no problem. Speaking - takes 10X as usual.

[The Wolves]

My opinions on characters are the same since I read the books years earlier.

I still love the Starks all of them: Ned, Robb, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Benjen

I hated Catelyn but that have turned into dislike. I love Edmure Tully I don't know why or how this happened. I still hate the rest of the Tullys Lysa, Blackfish, Hoster

I still love Tyrion and it manifested when he killed Tywin

I like Dany but think she's regressed as a character and her chapters annoy me

I have always hated Cersei and Jamie, Cersei a little more but I've come to realize that Jamie can be just as worse as Cersei so I despise him much much much more now

I'rooted for Stannis at the beginning but I hate him and always will

[James Arryn]

Some would also suggest that being high/drunk would, but I wouldn't trust them.

I find it hard to articulate my thoughts when tired... Maths, animation, modelling - no problem. Speaking - takes 10X as usual.

LOL! When I did modelling it was an absolute advantage, but I think we mean different things. :D

[Old-Growth]

Arkantos: don't worry, we are unlikely to go much farther with this. Also, further discussion of the NFL should probably be eschewed, unless someone is interested in speculating on the effect of the fate of the Football Giants on our author's morale and enthusiasm for writing.

[James Arryn]

Arkantos: don't worry, we are unlikely to go much farther with this. Also, further discussion of the NFL should probably be eschewed, unless someone is interested in speculating on the effect of the fate of the Football Giants on our author's morale and enthusiasm for writing.

GRRM's a Giants fan? Makes perfect sense, but you just made my world immeasurably smaller and sadder.

[Arkantos]

Arkantos: don't worry, we are unlikely to go much farther with this. Also, further discussion of the NFL should probably be eschewed, unless someone is interested in speculating on the effect of the fate of the Football Giants on our author's morale and enthusiasm for writing.

NFL? I was talking about footba.... oh soccer then :| I thought it turned into basketball a bit there too.

[Old-Growth]

GRRM's a Giants fan? Makes perfect sense, but you just made my world immeasurably smaller and sadder.

So I gather from reading his Not-a-Blog on his web site. He seems also to like the Jets. I, the gods old and new have pity upon me, am a Chicago Cubs fan :-(. I compensate by rooting for the US Womans National Soccer Team :) (Long story, but in the end it's all Brandy Chastain's fault.)

[James Arryn]

So I gather from reading his Not-a-Blog on his web site. He seems also to like the Jets. I, the gods old and new have pity upon me, am a Chicago Cubs fan :-(. I compensate by rooting for the US Womans National Soccer Team :) (Long story, but in the end it's all Brandy Chastain's fault.)

Lol, Cubs fan. Do remember William Murray at the SNL Obama/McCain town hall?

[RenlyIsNotRight]

Characters who my opinions on have changed favorably:

• Stannis Baratheon - Went from lukewarm at his introduction to my favorite character in the series by the end of ASoS.
  
• Jaime Lannister - Hated in AGoT and ACoK, slowly began to like more and more in ASoS and really liked by the end of AFFC.
  
• Theon Greyjoy - I still hold his stuff from ACoK in contempt, but its hard not to sympathize with him after ADWD.
  
• Jon Snow - Never disliked him actually, but I started liking him a lot more in ASoS.
  
• Asha Greyjoy - Also never really disliked, but in AFFC & ADWD I started to like her a lot.
  
• Kevan Lannister - In AGoT-ASoS I just thought he was Tywins cronie, then in AFFC when he started doing his own thing plus the ripping into Cersei I began to respect him a lot more, and was even a bit saddened by his death.
  
• Melisandre - Hated her at first, not sure why but in ADWD I actually started to become more or less nuetral on her, even liking her at certain points.
  
• Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne - Hated at first, then realized he's actually hilarious, and the ridiculous amount of hate he gets from the fanbase just makes him even funnier.
  

Characters who my opinions on have changed unfavorably:

• Daenerys Targaryen - I was never a big fan, but I felt sorry for her in AGoT. Then towards the end of ASoS she started to get on my nerves, and ADWD just completely ended any care I might have had for her.
  
• Tyrion Lannister - Like almost everyone I loved him in AGoT-ASoS, but in ADWD he just became so whiny and dull. I'm starting to feel like he's a one trick pony too - even his older chapters don't interest me as much anymore.
  
• Barristan Selmy - His "early retirement package" scene in AGoT was SO badass but...why the hell is he on this Targ Cool Aid?
  
• Jorah Mormont - See above, though revised to generally badass early on, generally lame and stupid later.
  
• Tywin Lannister - Never really liked him, but before the Red Wedding I had a certain respect for him. Lost all of it after that.
  
• Ramsay Bolton - Another one I never really liked, but at the end of ACoK I was happy to see that he was gonna give Theon what he deserved...little did I know at the time.
  
• Daario Naharis - At one point he wasn't in the books. Therefore I had a higher opinion on him than I do currently.
  

[brzibrzi]

jaime and sandor - hated them at the beginning but like them now. i'm having a hard time forgiving the murder of mycah and attempted murder of bran but i generally like them and wouldn't like it of something bad happened to them (i believe sandor is alive in that island monastery).

i disliked tywin but i grew to like and respect him later. he would make the perfect king hand of the king - he would secure a long lasting peace and the realm would prosper and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I would say the usually. Stannis being one the most up swing. I would say Dany would be the most downward swing.

@Renlyisnotright Post #666, quick do another.

[James Arryn]

Jon is the one I have the hardest time even mapping. I can go from thinking he's the hero to thinking he's Dudley Do Good in a single sentence. He was initially the character I think I was most drawn to, but then I am a fan of the Game more than the war with the Others, and generally find him a little too monochromatic for me...but then there's something that stops me short of dismissal or is interest, too, and when regarding the books as a whole, he might be my most consistent favourite, even though there were very few times in isolation when he would have been the person I saw as such.

[Woman of War]

Because these aren't real people to us.

We aren't judging them on real things.

They matter to us only as reflections of our personal taste, exactly as it applies to ice cream.

:agree:

Which character we like or dislike tells far more about ourselves, our personal experiences and our own life than it tells about absolute morality or right and wrong. We can relate to so many different characters and this is a proof for the quality of these books.

And the character Tyrion is exactly an example how the author takes us on an emotional ride through his books.

In this thread many posters have described their intense turn of opinion concerning the character Tyrion. And I am absolutely sure that the autor knows very well what he does here, given the fact that Tyrion seems to be one of the characters, or maybe the character, the author most relates to. The author invites us to a rollercoaster ride with this character, from fan favorite to intense dislike in some posters. It is after all love and hate that are linked the most, not love and indifference, the rejected lover is the worst hater.

And I imagine Mr Martin leaning back, rubbing his his hands and enjoying how wonderfully he succeeded in playing with his readers' minds, luring them exactly on the path where he wants to have them. Some may call this manipulation but for the negative undertones of that word I'd rather say "inviting us to follow the author on the path of his imagination" since this is what artists do.

Maybe there is more disappointment in the character Tyrion for those readers who had to wait a long time for each book while I as someone who read all five volumes one after the other see this character's development as a rounded story without breaks or thresholds. Anyways I am not a fan of "moral event horizons" as a tool to simplify things for readers, like a signpost: love here now! Don't love there anymore, morally wrong road!

But if there were such thing as a moral threshold of no return it would not be Tyrion's sex life or his going along with the Sansa marriage which may even turn out lucky in protecting Sansa fron worse things. This is grossly out of proportion compared to Tyrion killing Shae, a character very much ignored in these forums, only seen as defining Tyrion, never as the interesting individual she was, much more than some ladies. And there is the singer stew. And we get so many moral reflections in important POV's like Dany or Tyrion, a compelling mixture of deeds done, considered, refused that there is a very different base of judgement like with non POV's where we only have what they actually do or not.

If I would have lost Tyrion it would not be sex and marriage, it might have been the burning of so many at Blackwater. As Mother (personal approach :) ) I relate very much to Davos who has lost four of his children there, this turned my stomac around and might have been a threshold. And I do not accept excuses like "it's wartime, stupid" or "he was ordered to murder, stupid" (not Tyrion but others) since this is cheap. I am willing to root for the Tyrion character because he is a wonderful literary invention, my favorite in the books, he for many reasons appeals to me and I am willing to follow Martin on the twisted path where he wants to take his readers with that character. I am not a fairweather fan.

P.s., read the "rereading Tyrion" threads, high level debate without haters. i do certainly not agree with everything but these are great threads.

[brAnthelAstgreenseer]

Barristan Selmy: 1st time reading badass on re-reads dumbass

[James Arryn]

Yeah, Tyrion has been the most challenging. Well, Jaime and to a degree Cersei as well. Probably intentionally, the twins kind of reversed themselves for me. Not in terms of sympathy...I never liked Cersei or particularly disliked Jaime...just dismissed him as a cliche more and thought she was the more ominous.

Then we see inside their heads, and it's turned upside down. At least it's was for me. He be became my current fave because if his complexity, whereas she became a sort of comic soap opera.

Then there's Tyrion. For the longest time I felt very comfortable calling him my favourite character. Reading that he was GRRMs too didn't cause me many qualms, except when I saw him give a kind of creepy giggle when discussing him in an interview.

But, although I have read people tell me there were plenty of warning signs, the Sae murder really sent me for a loop. The prior stuff with the bard had me a little uneasy, but I didn't give it too much weight.

And then cold blooded murder. I can't even accurately articulate why hers mattered more than Tywin's, but I believe it is the latter which is exceptional...ie, Tywin had been such a bastard to to Tyrion dr so long and was actively working towards his death, so that it didn't make him a monster to do what he did when he did it. I didn't like him doing it, but it didn't seem out of context. Maybe I was already in shock.

Shae, though...the way he did it, the joy he took it in...that was a whole other animal. And the follow up in the next book did matter to me. If he had been devastated at what he had done, I might have been able to accept in a way, but he was really just lamenting what had been done to him. Very Cersei/Stannis.

in addition it got aesthetically tiresome. At on point I basically wrote him off. My interests rekindled with the river cruise/Aegon story, but that has more to do with my enthusiasm for a return to warfare missing since Robb. As soon as he became a sex salve or w/e,I lost most interest. Even though Mormont is one of my favourite peripheral characters.

But at the same time whenever he's in a scene, I think I give his POV the most credit, if that makes any sense. So if George is playing me, it's at least working on some levels. I am unable to dismiss my sympathies as much as I want to, although to be fair to myself if you stopped the books before Griff, I probably could have without a problem.

But he's crept back in, and for all I know I might get over my reservations almost entirely if his storyline resumes serious interest. So, yeah, totally get your point about his being GRRm's favourite toy for playing with our sympathies and limits.

[louied]

littlefinger. Disliked him in GoT for being a cocky idiot. Liked him when he saved sansa and found out how clever he was. Despise him now for how he started all the wars by killing john arryn and also how he betrayed lysa.

[Villemo]

at the beggining of GoT I liked Arya, Jon, Ned, Dany, Tyrion, Bronn, and dislike Cersei, Sansa, Jaime, Sandor (! Creepy one, how he could killed Mycah?), Theon, Tywin, Gregor Clegane.

After ADWD still love Arya and Tyrion. But I love Sandor and Jaime too, and started to like Theon (poor guy) and Sansa. Dany irritates me. So does Bronn. And Cersei.

Still hate The Mountain That Rides.

Interesting, what will I say after Winds of Winter :D

[The Mountain That Posts]

Arya: I wanted to give Arya a shot because she's a Stark and written in a way as to be more sympathetic to readers but lately I've been exposed to a ton of tomboy female protagonists that made her come off as a cliche to me and I can't help but hate her. It's probably why I liked Sansa to begin with (and still do) even if she was a ditz.

This. SO MUCH THIS.

I loved Arya as a POV in both AGoT and ACoK, but all her chapters in ASoS / AFfC / ADwD were just so.... painfully mediocre in my opinion. (which is a shame, because I think her being with the Brotherhood Without Banners could've been way more interesting, same thing with her being with The Hound. And her adventures in Essos, definitely could've been something better than her training to be an assassin. Eh)

Meanwhile, Sansa is perhaps my favorite POV upon my reread of the books. She's just so realistic and relateable.