Prince Lewyn's Paramour

[J. Stargaryen]

Oberyn was also at the tournament. I think the reference was possible Oberyn.

Yes, Oberyn is probably the red snake, but he wasn't a KG; aka, white sword.

[Hippocras]

Yes, Oberyn is probably the red snake, but he wasn't a KG; aka, white sword.

I would think the white sword was her brother Arthur.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I would think the white sword was her brother Arthur.

That's the usual assumption. Bit what if it was soneone else... Lewyn was a White Sword as well.

[Hippocras]

That's the usual assumption. Bit what if it was soneone else... Lewyn was a White Sword as well.

Well he was a white cloak, as was Barristan. But only Arthur had a white sword on his sigil.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well he was a white cloak, as was Barristan. But only Arthur had a white sword on his sigil.

Before he joined the KG. After he joined the KG, his sigil became the same as those of his sworn brothers: a white shield.

And during Harrenhal, Arthur had beena KG for some time already.

[J. Stargaryen]

White Sword = KG:

“A paper shield,” the eunuch said. “Try not to look so shocked, Lord Stark. Jaime Lannister is himself a Sworn Brother of the White Swords, and we all know what his oath is worth.”

“Put down the stick, girl,” Ser Meryn told her. “I am a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, the White Swords.”

Ser Barristan Selmy, resplendent in white plate, led them in. Ser Arys Oakheart escorted the queen, while Ser Boros Blount walked beside Joffrey, so six of the Kingsguard were now in the hall, all the White Swords save Jaime Lannister alone.”

Sansa watched as the knight peered up at his new king. She had never seen him look his years before, yet now he did. “Your Grace,” he said. “I was chosen for the White Swords in my twenty-third year.”

“Your time is done,” Cersei Lannister announced. “Joffrey requires men around him who are young and strong. The council has determined that Ser Jaime Lannister will take your place as the Lord Commander of Sworn Brothers of the White Swords.”

All six White Swords were there to welcome their newest brother.

These are all the instances of "white sword" from AGoT.

[Hippocras]

Before he joined the KG. After he joined the KG, his sigil became the same as those of his sworn brothers: a white shield.

And during Harrenhal, Arthur had beena KG for some time already.

I am not sure how much that matters when sigils are being used to somewhat identify people. In the White Book, their family sigils are still used as identifiers.

The thing is, the KG info says nothing about a white sword. White cloak, white shield, but not a white sword.

Edit: good quote finds above Stargaryen. Position changed. We don't know which KG it was. Might be Lewyn, or Barristan, or Arthur, or even Hightower. Who knows. For this thread Lewyn is a possibility yes, meaning Ashara may have been his paramour.

If her child is actually alive, they might end up inheriting Dorne if true.

[J. Stargaryen]

Once again, the quote from Cat of the Canals:

“He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. And the singer should be on the Wall.

“My father was Ser Arthur’s elder brother. Lady Ashara was my aunt. I never knew her, though. She threw herself into the sea from atop the Palestone Sword before I was born.”
“Why would she do that?” said Arya, startled.
Ned looked wary. Maybe he was afraid that she was going to throw something at him. “Your lord father never spoke of her?” he said. “The Lady Ashara Dayne, of Starfall?”
“No. Did he know her?”
“Before Robert was king. She met your father and his brothers at Harrenhal, during the year of the false spring.”
“Oh.” Arya did not know what else to say. “Why did she jump in the sea, though?”
“Her heart was broken.”
Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn’t say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. “Did someone break it?”

- ASoS, Arya VIII

This is from Arya's conversation with Ned Dayne about Lady Ashara. Arya does like to use the word stupid a lot, so it might just be a coincidence.

[Hippocras]

If the song is right and her lover was a Prince, it was either Lewyn or Rhaegar, or Oberyn. Those are the princes that were there.

[J. Stargaryen]

If the song is right and her lover was a Prince, it was either Lewyn or Rhaegar, or Oberyn. Those are the princes that were there.

We can eliminate Oberyn for sure, since he outlived Ashara by more than a decade. Though the timing of Rhaegar's death fits, I think we can also eliminate him due to R+L=J.

Barristan's potentially irony-laden thoughts about Ashara:

But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark?

- ADwD, The Kingbreaker

[Hippocras]

I am actually not convinced we can eliminate Rhaegar. To me it would make a lot of sense if Rhaegar was her lover because:

1. We already know Rhaegar was actively looking for a mother for a third child.

2. We know that Barristan will not make open accusations against whoever he thinks dishonoured Ashara, even in his own head.

3. We know that Brandon reacted more strongly than makes any logical sense to the news that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. This implies he was somewhat predisposed to believe negative rumours about Rhaegar, which would make sense if Ashara turned to Brandon for assistance after learning she was pregnant with Rhaegar's child.

[J. Stargaryen]

I am actually not convinced we can eliminate Rhaegar. To me it would make a lot of sense if Rhaegar was her lover because:

1. We already know Rhaegar was actively looking for a mother for a third child.

2. We know that Barristan will not make open accusations against whoever he thinks dishonoured Ashara, even in his own head.

3. We know that Brandon reacted more strongly than makes any logical sense to the news that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. This implies he was somewhat predisposed to believe negative rumours about Rhaegar, which would make sense if Ashara turned to Brandon for assistance after learning she was pregnant with Rhaegar's child.

To me it would make no sense if Rhaegar was Ashara's lover, since there is literally nothing suggesting a romantic relationship between the two.

Also, define "actively looking."

[Hippocras]

To me it would make no sense if Rhaegar was Ashara's lover, since there is literally nothing suggesting a romantic relationship between the two.

Also, define "actively looking."

"There must be a third" vision.

I would not rank Rhaegar as more likely than Lewyn here, if "prince" was literal in the song, but I would not rule him out is what I am saying.

[LordQorgyle]

Lewyn's paramour is too old to be Ashara

[Hippocras]

Lewyn's paramour is too old to be Ashara

Correction: the person Arianne thinks was Lewyn's paramour is old enough that Arianne at 23 thinks she is old.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

"There must be a third" vision.

That vision took place after Aegons birth. Harrenhal took place about a year before Harrenhal. Up until the news about Elias health cocernibg childbirth, there was no reason for Rhaegar to search for another woman, since there was no reason to assume that Elia wouldn't be able to have a third child.

[JoeyBanana]

All those potential lovers of Ashara makes Arianne blush like Sansa and Cersei look innocent like Margaery.

[LordQorgyle]

That is just speculation or there is any proof about that

[JonCon's Red Beard]

There's also this, from KotLT story Meera tells Bran in Dance:

Lewyn was KG.

Yes, I think there is a big chance that Lewyn was Ashara's lover. Of course, it had to be the Dornish. It's always the Dornish!

[Ser Creighton]

I realize Ashara Dayne is a problematic answer because this paramour is supposed to be alive now, but I came across an interesting passage in Feast:

- AFfC, Cat of the Canals

Prince Lewyn died on the Trident. News that might not have reached Starfall until Ned arrived with Dawn.

- Ser Barristan

Lots of juicy irony here if that paramour was Ashara Dayne, considering Selmy's feelings for her.

I have seen this before some time ago, and their was a debate over the idea. The singer was Dareon right, who Arya later kills. But if I recall the song is the Ballad of Bael the Bard which ends with Lady Stark throwing herself from the tower. Like Jon, Arya does not know the story. But the story is known to have it's parallels as you know.

“I swore no oath to Dorne, Ser Barristan told himself. But Lewyn Martell had been his Sworn Brother, back in the days when the bonds between the Kingsguard still went deep. I could not help Prince Lewyn on the Trident, but I can help his nephew now.”

“Prince Lewyn was my Sworn Brother. In those days there were few secrets amongst the Kingsguard. I know he kept a paramour. He did not feel there was any shame in that.”

Of note is that Selmy is comparing Lewyn to Darrio the Queens paramour. If Selmy new they probably all new, though he did not seem to reveal a name.

I reme,ber the theory had something to do with evil Ashara or some such thing. But the thing is why would this action bring about a sucidal consequence. In the Balled of Bael Lady Stark kills herself because she sent her son to kill the lover that spurned her seeing him dead she threw herself. It's a bit of a BS bards tale, but it holds true to actions having consequences. Her lover dies so she kills herself a few weeks later? I read a similar theory on Brandon and her.

It also seems odd given Martins statments about Ashara, if she could tell Ned about where Lyanna is then she would already know about Leywn. Then return to Dorne, then wait for Ned, then find out about Arthur. Then kill herself over Leywn. Though maybe she didn't tell Ned, but then why is Martin reminding people she could be getting around Westeros and is not nailed down to Starfall?

I may be wrong, but outside of Bardic lore where women kill themselves when their lover pricks his finger and they weep for him not being able to see him in such pain. But really outside of the Bard stuff is Ashara the only suicide in the series? That initself would be note worthy. Plus why help Ned or wait for him at Starfall if it's his men that killed her beloved?

In truth she would of known from the beginning that it would never work out, Leywn was in the KG. So it had it's limitations. Then you got the KG who were suppose to be close at the time. Do you really sleep with your friends sister? The Selmy Iron would be great, no doubt but also kind of pointless. He already thought someone had dishonored her at Harrenhal and it was the Starks she went too. There has to be some reason for her to have a relationship with the Starks, which she does. Why not go to Lewyn if she was dishonored?

I don't know part of me really likes the idea, but I can't really get past some of the obstacles. I mean Harrenhal itself is such a monster, it's the only thing in the series Martin ever said he would do a prequel too. He said the 10 days there could easily fill a book or something like that. It always goes back to that place.

I just can't figure out how Lywen and the Starks really fit together there though. Who knows maybe she was a lot like Arianne, though the Daynes don't seem all that much like their salty brothers and are said to follow the Andal customs. Which means Arthur would probably be pissed, and that is not the guy to piss off. But who knows.