Rockroi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Here's another odd question. Welker is likely gone after this season, no? Lloyd wasn't that good either. That basically turns the pats into the 2011 Stanford cardinal - two great TEs, good running game, no receivers to speak of. The defense likely wont be significantly better either. You are correct about everything except the last part- that th D will not be significantly better. I guess its on how you define "significantly"; I think Spikes, Mayo, Jones and Hightower are all very good players who are playing really well. Wilfork is showing no signs of slowing. The problem rests in the secondary. If they do not bring in somebody who they can plug in there as a CB, they will never get back to their Super-bowl days. The Pats have spent 3 first round picks on that secondary- Chung, McCourty and Merriweather. The first two are okay; Merriweather was a total bust. No DB has "improved" under Belichick. Not a one. IF that's the case, I cannot imagine the Pats winning a AFC Championship game much less win a Super bowl. Do they go after some big FA shots like Bowe? Or do they try for playing the longer game, knowing Brady's window is closing? Your guess is as good as mine because Belichick is just not as crazy about "impact" free-agent signings since Adalius Thomas imploded (even though... on D they can pay big dividends). The Pats are going to have a super-conservative O and a plateau'd defense. Ughh.... a chilling vision of things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Here's another odd question. Welker is likely gone after this season, no? Lloyd wasn't that good either. That basically turns the pats into the 2011 Stanford cardinal - two great TEs, good running game, no receivers to speak of. The defense likely wont be significantly better either. Do they go after some big FA shots like Bowe? Or do they try for playing the longer game, knowing Brady's window is closing?To be fair, those two tight ends are damn good. When they're both healthy, they don't need much from the receivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 I do wonder how many good years Brady has left.On the one hand, he was great this year yet again. But he's like 35 now? And he didn't look so hot in the 2nd half today.If I believed that I could sign Bowe I would very much go for it.Not saying one way or another, but once he starts to lose that zip, he's in trouble. Peyton was never about arm strength, Brady is. To be fair, those two tight ends are damn good. When they're both healthy, they don't need much from the receiversI think you're under-valuing Welker. The guy does so much for that offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLU-RAY Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Well, part of the reason they'll let Welker go is that Belichick is convinced he can get a large percentage of that from Edelman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 To be fair, those two tight ends are damn good. When they're both healthy, they don't need much from the receiversA lot of their lanes are opened up because of the slot movement. I think you can say they survive without a traditional wide, but they at least need someone outside the edge to set their lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not saying one way or another, but once he starts to lose that zip, he's in trouble. Peyton was never about arm strength, Brady is.I think you're under-valuing Welker. The guy does so much for that offense.Agree on the last bit, disagree on Brady and zip. He's always been a lot more about timing; his strength has only been evident in relation to the noodle rep he came in with, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daario's*before*Snows Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Theres no guarantee that teams will be interested in Welker, especially if hes asking for a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 There's no guarantee, but there are plenty of teams who have expressed interest already. Some in-division. I think it'd be foolish of anyone to get him unless they really were just a receiver away (which doesn't really describe anyone I can think of) but people will try. Hmm. Maybe the redskins. The pats need at least some credible deep threat. Their passing concepts need it to clear safeties and open up outside runs and smoke routes. Without that you have at best one deep safety and a lot more doubling on the TEs and more run support. Both are bad news. It'll still be a good offense, but it'll have a lot more trouble coming back from deficits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daario's*before*Snows Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I wonder if Pats will even make an offer for Welker, or will they just not resign him no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not discrediting welker. Just saying those two guys are good. Perhaps the best tight end duo weve ever seen. And if theyre both healthy, which wr haven4 seen much thisbyear, wekker is a bonus. Welker is very usefuk, but theyll be fine without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I don't get the frustration with ESPN. I don't get worked up by them at all these days. I just don't watch. It isn't worth it. The internet has plenty of news and I don't really care about video highlights anyway. The one or two 'must see' plays can easily be found online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Agree on the last bit, disagree on Brady and zip. He's always been a lot more about timing; his strength has only been evident in relation to the noodle rep he came in with, IMO.I didn't mean to say that he's all arm, because he's not, but it's more important to him than it was to Manning. If only because he's grown so fond of bullet-ing it into tight coverage for those TE's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's one of the best illustrations of how stupid wins are as a stat. Flacco in 2009 in one of those wins (against the pats) went a whopping 4 of 10 for 36 yards. Wins for a qb don't mean shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 In that vein, Brady went 10-0 in the playoffs in his first 4 years including superbowls. Since then he's gone 7-7. His stats in those first 10 games are mostly nothing special. Does this matter at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daario's*before*Snows Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Flacco won because he got rid of the stache.You cant win anything with a moustache.When is the last time a moustache guy was champion of anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 WORDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balefired-ed Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Flacco won because he got rid of the stache.You cant win anything with a moustache.When is the last time a moustache guy was champion of anythingGeorge Parros was on a Stanley Cup winning team about five years ago, though to be fair his mustache probably got absorbed into playoff beard by that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The problem is not Brady in and of himself. Its with the talent that they have hung on him. Here's the problem with the Pats- they have been... inconsistent... at developing significant talent on defense or at Wide Receiver since Belichick took over in 2000. All of Brady's original cast of characters on O- Smith, Patten, Brown and on D - Law, Bruschi, Vrabel, McGuinness, etc - were already here when Belichick came over in 2000. By 2007 they were all either gone or really old. After that at WR its been almost all free agents- Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Caldwell, Lloyd, Gaffney... its a "Who's Who" or "Where Did We Get Them From?"The only WR Belichick drafted who seemed to pan out was Deion Branch and we didn't resign him so he could fuck around Seattle. They have been far less consistent at Running back with Ridley and Vereen balancing out maybe the worst running back in Pats history, Lawrence Maroney (hooray wasted high draft pick). (Faulk was drafted by Parcells). Corey Dillon was another free agent.On D, the Pats have been very good with Mayo and Wilfork with Spikes, Hightower and hopefully Jones all moving into the "worked out" category." The glaring problem is at DB- they have not drafted a single DB who has improved over time. As stated above, Merriweather was a total bust (the only viable excuse is that he played the type of football in college that is obsolete now- ie: hitting in the head), Chung has only been "okay" and McCourty was so good at Corner that they moved him to Safety... there's a reason you never hear the term "shut-down Safety."Now, I say that because, I don't care how many points you score on offense (preferably more than 13) - if you cannot stop the other team you are, in effect, flipping a coin every game. The other team is able to control everything if you cannot stop the pass. The Pats had ONE player that could consistently stop the pass and we picked him up in Week 7 and he stopped playing 6 minutes into the 2nd quarter.Its conventional wisdom that the two positions that are most dependent on attitude are WR and DB.Hmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yes - Of course they matter. That 10-0 correlated w/ three Super Bowl wins.sorry, I'll be more clear. Does that 10-0 record mean that Brady was playing better back in those days? Does it mean he's playing worse now? Both are pretty ludicrous on their face to state, but that's the sort of shitty analysis that goes with win loss record for a qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Wasn't Asante Samuel homegrown? By belichick? Could've sworn he was. And branch wasn't resigned, he was traded, right? In an awesome move that ended up hurting both teams. Hard to top that. I don't know that the pats need a great or even good cb. I do think they need either that or a good pass rush. Right now they have neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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