Could Rhaego be Alive?

[naik2902]

?

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I think this is a case of wishful thinking. To what end would MMD keep Rhaego alive? Even if he wasn't born a monster why would she keep him alive to fufil his prophecy? It's exactly the thing she didn't want. The prophecy didn't say that Dani and Drogo had to raise Rhaego for him to do what he was meant to do. Being born and becoming a Kahl would likely be enough and that doesn't neccessarily mean Dani and Drogo have to be involved in his life.

[danm_999]

For one thing, we have nothing but MMD's word that the spell works like she says it does.

Ok. But if MMD is lying about the fundamentals of the spell, why even bother demanding the khal's valuable horse? If it's all a fat con to abduct Rhaego, why demand anything? Pretend the spell works 'just because', since that's an easier way to get what you want.

The horse may have been enough, and then when Jorah walked in with Dany in labor, she improvised, and said that was the real price all along.

So...you're saying Rhaego is dead now..?

The horse's neck was slit and poured into the tub with Drogo, inside the tent. "Strength of the mount go into the rider." chanted MMD.

Nope. It happened outside the tent, before the ritual, with Daenerys, Jorah and the bloodriders watching. Here's the text;

The stallion kicked and reared as Rakharo, Quaro, and Aggo pulled him close to the tub where the khal floated like one already dead, pus and blood seeping from his wound to stain the bathwaters. Mirri Maz Duur chanted words in a tongue that Dany did not know, and a knife appeared in her hand. Dany never saw where it came from. It looked old; hammered red bronze, leaf-shaped, its blade covered with ancient glyphs. The maegi drew it across the stallion’s throat, under the noble head, and the horse screamed and shuddered as the blood poured out of him in a red rush. He would have collapsed, but the men of her khas held him up. “Strength of the mount, go into the rider,” Mirri sang as horse blood swirled into the waters of Drogo’s bath. “Strength of the beast, go into the man.”

[rmholt]

watch this: http://zippo514.devi...-Wolf-335304130

Cool! Not as whimisical as as what I was looking for and somehow there seems to be no representation of the Stark direwolves playing Poker. Or pool. ISAGN

[SpareBoot]

werewolf in london. Drinking a cocktail at Trader Vic's

:cool4:

[Angmar]

Damn! I wanna put like for the two awesome answers yet there's no like button! What the hell!? :thumbsdown:

[GrimReaper]

I always interpreted 'the stallion who mounts the world' as a reference to dragons. The dragons are, after all, Dany's children. Mounting the world could imply their ability to fly -- literally, mounting the world. Agreed, they spoke of one stallion, and there are three dragons, but they were referring to her children....

[Roza Ahai]

Yes of course he is alive, probably down in the same pub as Robb, Grey Wind, Tywin and The Ned, playing cards and telling stories while they wait for Syrio to buy his round of drinks from the bar, just waiting until GRRM calls them back into the narrative. :)

Lisa Arryn, Grey Wind's sister Lady, MMR, UnCat grabing pop-corn and watching them playing cards.

[western wolf]

Can't say I support this theory. Even if he was spirited away from Dany after birth, chances are other potential Khals would have had him killed just to prevent competition.

[therealbando]

Lisa Arryn, Grey Wind's sister Lady, MMR, UnCat grabing pop-corn and watching them playing cards.

Don`t forget about Viserys and Drogo they`re probably there to, laughing about the good old days when days they used to play "Crown the King"

[Lady's Secret]

I don't think Rhaego is alive because I can't think of a single logical reason for anyone to save him.

I do think MMD was lying about what he looked like. I think she was just trying to hurt Dany or make her feel like she could only have monsters for children. Or if he did look the way she describe him, it was because of her magic.

[rmholt]

Can't say I support this theory. Even if he was spirited away from Dany after birth, chances are other potential Khals would have had him killed just to prevent competition.

Yes it is a simple thing to penetrate a khal and kill a valued hostage.

[Dolorous Nedd]

No.

No matter how happy I would be if he was, he isn't. And Mance Rayder is probably not Rhaegar either. :(

There's actually a theory that Mance is Rhaegar? It does give what Theon (the person who plays Theon in the series) a whole new twist. He says it will be a Darth Vader moment when Jon learns who his true parents are. Can you imagine Mance saying "Jon I'm your father?"

[Ser Jake]

He`s not dead, he`s either a FM or was sent by Varys to help Aegon/ Dany just like everybody else who died in the series...

Seriously now why should MMD let him live? Or if she let him how did she take him to her people? I think Jorah would have noticed her leaving with a perfectly healthy baby. Or if one of the other Khals took him why should they let him live? He`s Dany`s son, and a potential future Khal, so why risk letting him alive?

Technically he doesn't have anymore potential of being a Khal than any other Dothraki, since birthright means little to them.

I think Rhaego is dead, but the OP makes some good points, especially about Jorah being on the brink of consciousness throughout the birth. But I highly doubt anyone would risk their lives trying to keep the baby a secret. If the slaves were "responsible" for stealing away with the child, surely they would've been strongly guarded and unable to do anything without being noticed. If some other Dothraki were "responsible", why would they betray the blood of their blood for seemingly no reason?

[Waylin Stark]

No point. If he turns up as another claimant to the Iron Throne or something(as if we don't have enough!), it wouldn't matter because he's a baby with no supporters. MMD would've killed him first chance she got.

No, he's dead.

[SpareBoot]

There's actually a theory that Mance is Rhaegar? It does give what Theon (the person who plays Theon in the series) a whole new twist. He says it will be a Darth Vader moment when Jon learns who his true parents are. Can you imagine Mance saying "Jon I'm your father?"

Off Topic:

I've had this theory regarding Rheagar and the possibility someone else met Roberts Warhammer. Rheagar was famous for many reasons, and so were his rubies. Mance wore a ruby while in 'disguise', maybe it wasnt Mels. Maybe (he prob isnt Rheagar) but this was one of RR, and Mance has understood the power all along...crack in my pot...

On Topic:

Rheago is dead. or not. He wont factor into the final showdown, whatever that ends up being.

[mcb]

I'm always suspicious if someone dies off-screen and we're not shown the body. That said, even if Rhaego was in fact alive, then he would be what - two, three years old? At the end of the series. Which means, even less interesting a character than Rickon.

[A Crow Come Over]

How very convinient that the infant's flesh began to fall apart right as Mirri touched it, and before anybody else could see it. Did anyone else actually see the child emerge from Dany's womb? We presume Jorah was in the tent, but was he watching the actual birth? He was grievously wounded at the time as well: how much blood does one lose from a gash to the bone in one's leg? Was he concious at all? All Jorah has to say on the matter is what "the women" say. What women? The Dothraki healers were afraid to even come near the tent, remember? How long after the birth did "the women" see the child? Were they preparing the corpse for burning? Or is "what they say" just gossip?

In other words, whose word do we have on the state of the child besides Mirri Maz Duur's?

Even if we assume someoHow hard would it have been for Mirri Maz Duur to take the child and hand it off to some of the other lamb-people, who later escaped during the chaos of Drogo's illness and death? If compelled to produce a corpse, her story of a twisted misshapen thing "dead for years" and stank like death could have been just about anything. Some creature she had kept preserved in a jar in that chest of hers, perhaps.

Mostly, I suspect this because we saw no body, we only heard of the event second-hand. Also, of all the prophecies in the novels, the ones concerning Rhaego are the only ones that simply CANNOT come true. No other visions are "what might have been" except those about Rhaego... why? Other visions have been MISINTERPRETED, sure, but with every one we could later go back and say "Okay, so Renly's ghost didn't ACTUALLY lead the army, the vision was of someone else in his armor" and so on. There are, as far as I can tell, ZERO other prophecies which are flat out wrong. Why? As a writer, why would Martin do this, make every other prophecy, (and prophets in ASoIaF are a dime a dozen, from fools to warlocks to fiddlers to priests) come true, but leave only the ones concerning a single individual unable to come to pass?

Also, for what it's worth, Duur seems to cleverly avoid confirming the death:

Which she might really believe, is he's being raised by the lamb-men.

Thoughts?

My first thought would be what impact a 2/3 yr old toddler has on the outcome of the series.

[Damon_Tor]

That said, even if Rhaego was in fact alive, then he would be what - two, three years old? At the end of the series. Which means, even less interesting a character than Rickon.

My first thought would be what impact a 2/3 yr old toddler has on the outcome of the series.

This depends on the nature of the ending we are to be given. It's entirely possible that we don't ever see the Others defeated, that we are left with a prophecy in fulfillment, with perhaps nothing more than an understanding of what the prophecy means. We assume Daenarys is one of the dragons' three heads: what if she isn't? What if her three children (born from the three husbands noted in the "bride of fire" prohpecy; Hizdahr is not included because she does not bear him a child.) At the end of the series, the young Stallion will be ~3, Victarion's child will be ~1 or so, and her child with Jon will be newborn or perhaps still unborn. We would know that these three will be the ones to end the others, we just wouldn't see them actually do it.

Keep in mind the name of the last novel: A Dream of Spring. Nothing suggests Spring will actually START in that novel, we simply dream that it is soon to come. Remember, last time the Others came winter lasted generations; this would hardly measure up to that legend if Jon was just able to put together a dragonriding Justice League and take them out himself. No, this is a generational struggle, which means the next generation is intensely relevant, even if they are not directly relevant within the timeframe of any of the novels.

[Damon_Tor]

Nope. It happened outside the tent, before the ritual, with Daenerys, Jorah and the bloodriders watching. Here's the text;

Just reread to be sure, but you are incorrect:

“We camp here,” Dany repeated. “Haggo, tell them Khal Drogo commanded the halt. If any ask why, say to them that my time is near and I could not continue. Cohollo, bring up the slaves, they must put up the khal’s tent at once.

...

The slaves erected Khal Drogo’s tent beneath a jagged outcrop of black rock whose shadow gave some relief from the heat of the afternoon sun. Even so, it was stifling under the sandsilk as Irri and Doreah helped Dany walk Drogo inside.

...

“We must bathe him,” she said stubbornly. She must not allow herself to despair. “Irri, have the tub brought at once.

...

The slaves set up the heavy copper tub in the corner of the tent.

...

“Bring his horse,” Mirri Maz Duur commanded, and so it was done. Jhogo led the great red stallion into the tent.

It's very clear.