Theda Baratheon Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 To get to the other side.OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yeah OK. But what exactly did Varys do? Only helped conspire to get Jon Arryn murdered, then make sure LF set up the war between lion and wolf. This is besides his dubious role 15-16 years earlier in Bob's rebellion.But I must ask, did you miss the DwD epilogue chapter? Pretty much makes his character clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreyKraken Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I dont know about Aegon but I think he knows about Daenerys Agreed, although Littlefinger's motives are unknown so we don't know for sure if he has any knowledge of Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Only helped conspire to get Jon Arryn murdered, then make sure LF set up the war between lion and wolf. This is besides his dubious role 15-16 years earlier in Bob's rebellion.But I must ask, did you miss the DwD epilogue chapter? Pretty much makes his character clear.He helped how? What specifically did Varys do? Littlefinger took out Jon Arryn, in order to set up the war. In what way did Varys help?Do you think I believe the bullshit Varys says? He said basically the same shit to Ned in the black cells. I don't really believe he gives a fuck about "good rulers" or the "good of the realm". Varys murders children as on ongoing cost of doing business. He's been doing it for 20 years? This is the guy who cares about protecting the innocent? That whole speech is bullshit. Varys has more in common with Craster than Kevan Lannister. Who is he to talk about evil? In all likely hood his nads were sacrificed to the Great Other and he's been working for him ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 He helped how? What specifically did Varys do? Littlefinger took out Jon Arryn, in order to set up the war. In what way did Varys help?Do you think I believe the bullshit Varys says? He said basically the same shit to Ned in the black cells. I don't really believe he gives a fuck about "good rulers" or the "good of the realm". Varys murders children as on ongoing cost of doing business. He's been doing it for 20 years? This is the guy who cares about protecting the innocent? That whole speech is bullshit. Varys has more in common with Craster than Kevan Lannister. Who is he to talk about evil? In all likely hood his nads were sacrificed to the Great Other and he's been working for him ever since.How do you know Varys murders children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 There could be a reason, on condition the Connington-Aegon regime would look at LF and Sansa favourably, but the latter is unlikely given Connington's hatred of the Starks. And a big reason not to: Aegon is a Varys project, and Varys/Illyrio are unlikely to tolerate LF influence in an Aegon court.Given his "three queens" comment to Sansa, I rather suspect he is well aware of Dany (which doesn't stop him from potentially knowing about Aegon as well - LF has a pretty good info network himself) and if he plans to take a side, he may well be the first in Westeros proper to reach out to her. Tyrion probably being with her would be a bummer, though!Oh I have no doubt he knows about Dany, but that only means that he's one of the few in Westeros who takes the news from across the pond seriously. People in KL have heard about Dany, but no one seems to either believe it really or care. But Dany is also the visible Targaryen and knowing about her is a lot easier than knowing about a plot Varys has been slowly hatching for the better part of two decades. Not only has there been no attempt to hide the fact that she was living across the Narrow Sea, but she is making one heck of a name for herself in attempting to smash the slave trade. That the Lannisters seem to want to be willfully ignorant of the threat she poses doesn't mean that Littlefinger would be just as stupid. So him knowing about Dany does not translate for me to him knowing about Aegon. Particularly because when the Aegon plot was hatched (assuming it is real for a moment and that Varys' Aegon is in fact the same Aegon birthed by Elia), Littlefinger was no where near as connected as he is now, he was a total nobody 15-17 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfell Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 He helped how? What specifically did Varys do? Littlefinger took out Jon Arryn, in order to set up the war. In what way did Varys help?Do you think I believe the bullshit Varys says? He said basically the same shit to Ned in the black cells. I don't really believe he gives a fuck about "good rulers" or the "good of the realm". Varys murders children as on ongoing cost of doing business. He's been doing it for 20 years? This is the guy who cares about protecting the innocent? That whole speech is bullshit. Varys has more in common with Craster than Kevan Lannister. Who is he to talk about evil? In all likely hood his nads were sacrificed to the Great Other and he's been working for him ever since.While I'm dubious about Varys' motives (I suspect he's more likely a Blackfyre loyalist at heart and wants the rturn of the Blackfyres to spark a golden age, hence grooming fAegon to be agood ruler), I'm just going to point out that just because his methods are unsavoury doesn't mean that he's not working for the greater good; Varys is very much an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy and if he has to kill a few children or a few hundred to get the outcome he wants, then he would do.If all of the evil things in the series were done by evil men with evil motives then the series would be much diminished by being reduced to something so simplistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 How do you know Varys murders children?Cause he said so, when he thought no one was listening and he placed his next order for disposable toddlers. Game of Thrones. go look it up. Chapter 32, Arya III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Cause he said so, when he thought no one was listening and he placed his next order for disposable toddlers. Game of Thrones. go look it up. Chapter 32, Arya IIIWait...you believe him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 While I'm dubious about Varys' motives (I suspect he's more likely a Blackfyre loyalist at heart and wants the rturn of the Blackfyres to spark a golden age, hence grooming fAegon to be agood ruler), I'm just going to point out that just because his methods are unsavoury doesn't mean that he's not working for the greater good; Varys is very much an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy and if he has to kill a few children or a few hundred to get the outcome he wants, then he would do.If all of the evil things in the series were done by evil men with evil motives then the series would be much diminished by being reduced to something so simplisticI don't give a fuck about his methods. I'm just pointing out he's full of shit. His method directly contradict his own state agenda. Just because Varys says he's working for the greater good doesn't mean he's working for the greater good either. The reason I don't buy he's helping Aegon, is because his plan to help Aegon is horrible. The reason I don't believe he care about innocents is because he murders innocents. Since he doesn't give a fuck about Aegon or Viserys, and he's not working with Littlefinger, then Varys must be working for someone else. The only faction left is the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanSnow Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't like LF but he is great. Like a college version of tywin. Not sure if he knew about Ageon but he will declare for the winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Wait...you believe him?I think believing Varys talking in secret to his partner of decades, co-conspirator and likely brother-in-law makes much more sense than believing Varys when he talks to people he wants to convince of something. Varys is very subtle, but he is still lying most of the time. It's just that most of the lies he tells are hidden within truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 How could LF have known of Aegon? Wasn't even plan A for Illyrio and Varys at the start of GoT (their plan A was to get Viserys over to Westeros with 30000 Dothraki screamers).You're also forgetting the Tyrells owe him one - at least the QoT does (for his contribution in the PW). And so do the Lannisters (for his contribution in desposing of Jon Arryn, neutralizing Eddard, and the Bitterbridge negotiations). LF has friends enough which ever way the continuation of the Wot5K goes.More interesting I find is his comment of "the war of the three queens". Seems to imply he knows of Dany (the other two Marge and Cercei?). And I don't means knows she exists (of course he knew that ever since he was on the small council), but that she will become a force to be reckoned with in the future.Viserys was never plan A, if he was they would have told him about his nephew Aegon and they never did. The Tyrells owe LF but how can he be certain that they won't sink with the ship from the storm that is coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Wait...you believe him?Are you suggesting, he knew Arya was there in the dark and was lying to Illyrio and just needs 50 little kids for no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I think believing Varys talking in secret to his partner of decades, co-conspirator and likely brother-in-law makes much more sense than believing Varys when he talks to people he wants to convince of something. Varys is very subtle, but he is still lying most of the time. It's just that most of the lies he tells are hidden within truth.There is an excess of subtlety needed to determine when declaimed disbelief is to be disregarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Are you suggesting, he knew Arya was there in the dark and was lying to Illyrio and just needs 50 little kids for no reason?Why is he honest with Ilyrio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Why is he honest with Ilyrio? because he actually needs the 50 children to use as spies and if he lied about it to his supplier he wouldn't get his children? Have you ever tried lying to your waiter at a restaurant, they never bring you what you secretly want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 There's no reason to believe he knows of Aegon. LF gives his reasoning himself as to why he believed the realm would enter a period of instability, Cersei's poor leadership and the 3 Queens, he goes as far as to say Cersei is totally predictable, showing he was absolutely expecting a situation such as the one occurring in KL.He may or may not have been expecting Dany to arrive to distract KL, but ultimately all he needs is a lack of will in KL to protect the North and Boltons from the Vale. He may have had that without Cersei turning the place into a circus really as what do the Tyrell's or Lannister's really care for the North or Bolton's?He was banking on Cersei giving him the breathing space to put his plan in motion, in his own words it seems Cersei is giving him too much breathing space too soon and he's had to fast track some things and leave some others on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 There is an excess of subtlety needed to determine when declaimed disbelief is to be disregarded.have you considered this might not be the series for you? cause a lot of the characters lie, like, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 because he actually needs the 50 children to use as spies and if he lied about it to his supplier he wouldn't get his children? Have you ever tried lying to your waiter at a restaurant, they never bring you what you secretly want.No, but then I generally do not hold forth on the unreliability of my servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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