Nick Baratheon Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I also read that note in aDwD as the characters shivering together (winter has come, after all).But I think it was meant sort of playfully and not as a solemn promis that everyone will be in Westeros again:)Yep, and also he doesn´t promise at all, cause he says " I hope (...) " .And GRRM hoping to do something is completely different to GRRM actually doing something. as was demonstrated with ADWDEdit: Tyryan was faster, damn :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaoftheCanals Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 GRRM said in an interview, I'll try to dig it up, but don't hold your breath, that the story starts with the Starks parting ways and scattering all over the place, expanding the story as it were, and that he intends to finish the story by getting them back together... coming full circle. :)Dug it up ;) : There’s a point in the series where you feel like you’re reading a bunch of separate stories. Toward the end of Dance, you feel the threads starting to come back together. Is that accurate?That’s certainly the intent, and always was the intent. Tolkien was my great model for much of this. Although I differ from Tolkien in important ways, I’m second to no one in my respect for him. If you look at Lord of the Rings, it begins with a tight focus and all the characters are together. Then by end of the first book the Fellowship splits up and they have different adventures. I did the same thing. Everybody is at Winterfell in the beginning except for Dany, then they split up into groups, and ultimately those split up too. The intent was to fan out, then curve and come back together. Finding the point where that turn begins has been one of the issues I’ve wrestled with.http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/12/george-martin-talks-a-dance-with-dragons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Haven't found the interview I'm thinking of (I know I've watched it on YouTube ages ago), but here's something in the meantime about all characters in general, not just the Starks:There’s a point in the series where you feel like you’re reading a bunch of separate stories. Toward the end of Dance, you feel the threads starting to come back together. Is that accurate?That’s certainly the intent, and always was the intent. Tolkien was my great model for much of this. Although I differ from Tolkien in important ways, I’m second to no one in my respect for him. If you look at Lord of the Rings, it begins with a tight focus and all the characters are together. Then by end of the first book the Fellowship splits up and they have different adventures. I did the same thing. Everybody is at Winterfell in the beginning except for Dany, then they split up into groups, and ultimately those split up too. The intent was to fan out, then curve and come back together. Finding the point where that turn begins has been one of the issues I’ve wrestled with.Here's the interview the quote is from.His "I hope" is he hopes he'll squeeze it all of them getting back to Westeros in Winds...ETA: Ahahah, what telepathy! :cheers: Emma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaoftheCanals Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Though I don't really see how Bran is going to get out of that cave... BR's state suggests that being a Greenseer is a permanent type of occupation:).@LittleWing: gmta ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Oh, I have this dream he'll get out... somehow :frown5:ETA: It doesn't have to mean all Starks will reunite, but most? Yeah, I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaoftheCanals Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Haven't found the interview I'm thinking of (I know I've watched it on YouTube ages ago), but here's something in the meantime about all characters in general, not just the Starks:Though IIRC in aGot, all the viewpoint characters are Stark (or Stark affiliated) except for Tyrion & Dany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaoftheCanals Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Oh, I have this dream he'll get out... somehow :frown5:ETA: It doesn't have to mean all Starks will reunite, but most? Yeah, I think so.Yeah, I don't want Bran to stay there either... He's always described as a sociable character, and it seems so lonely :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Though IIRC in aGot, all the viewpoint characters are Stark (or Stark affiliated) except for Tyrion & Dany...Most are Starks, yes.Ah, I hope I find that interview. I distinctly remember it being a video, not reading it, and him talking about Starks coming together in the end... well, the ones left standing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I watched the tv show last week in my native tongue and the dire wolves were translated into shadow wolves. That doesn't mean a thing but we have a shadowtower and at least one shadowbinder. Are the White Walkers "unbound" shadows? Leading back to the black magic of the CotF.About Melisandre and Jon: her whole behaviour towards him - wanting him to do things differently, but not pushing or threatening him, offering to name his enemies and so on has "Mother" written all over, IMHO. Umm i doubt what Mel has in store for Jon is what a mother would want, it is clear from ADWD she intends to have Jon father some of her shadow babies.It was in her POV that she had said " Jon doesn't love her,will never love her but that she had done that same dance with Stannis". Stannis light is dimming and she can no longer use him to make such babies,but with Jon she can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Indeed, the way I read GRRM the intention is that they'll all be brought back together again, but he's not entirely confident all of them will have made it by the end of Winds of Winter - and perhaps the bittersweet ending is that Bran will only be able to watch the reunion through the weirwood eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Though IIRC in aGot, all the viewpoint characters are Stark (or Stark affiliated) except for Tyrion & Dany...Correct. And I feel that by the end, the only POV's that will truly be of import will be those from Game and the ones added in Clash and Storm (Theon, Davos, Jaime, Sam)--the extra Feast and Dance ones simply existing to help further the story along without having to do a bunch of flashback/discussion scenes later from the established POVs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Others and wights - they bother me. The Others seem to be strong and intelligent, in a predator-type way. The wights are also strong and predatory. The Others can be killed with obsidian and the wights with fire. So far, I don't see how the wights are less powerful than the Others. I know that the Others seem to create the wights (which we haven't seen from a first-person POV) and use them for their Other purpose (as an attack force), but do the Others do this because there aren't enough Others and they need more soldiers? And why aren't there more Others? We haven't really seen the Others exhibit intelligence other than a predatory canniness - they can hunt you down and kill you, but they don't really do anything else that we've seen. I know on Heresy we think Others are sidhe-like, which implies some preternatural intellect, but we haven't seen it. And we haven't seen any real intellect from the wights, either. To me, they don't seem very different from one another, except in physical makeup - the wights don't seem lesser in power or intelligence. Neither group seems very intelligent - they both seem zombie-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaoftheCanals Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think that is the natural endpoint of the series... What we're all rooting for: the Stark children's happy ending.Of course aSoIaF is not all sunshine and roses, but it feels to me this reunion is where this story is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I watched the tv show last week in my native tongue and the dire wolves were translated into shadow wolves. That doesn't mean a thing but we have a shadowtower and at least one shadowbinder. Are the White Walkers "unbound" shadows? Leading back to the black magic of the CotF.Well I have pointed out before that the White Walkers are also referred to (and right at the beginning too, in the AGoT prologue) as White Shadows and may therefore be an Ice counterpart to Mel's black shadows. - although if they are, they're much more substantial (and chattier) than Mel's short-lived creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Others and wights - they bother me. The Others seem to be strong and intelligent, in a predator-type way. The wights are also strong and predatory. The Others can be killed with obsidian and the wights with fire. So far, I don't see how the wights are less powerful than the Others. I know that the Others seem to create the wights (which we haven't seen from a first-person POV) and use them for their Other purpose (as an attack force), but do the Others do this because there aren't enough Others and they need more soldiers? And why aren't there more Others? We haven't really seen the Others exhibit intelligence other than a predatory canniness - they can hunt you down and kill you, but they don't really do anything else that we've seen. I know on Heresy we think Others are sidhe-like, which implies some preternatural intellect, but we haven't seen it. And we haven't seen any real intellect from the wights, either. To me, they don't seem very different from one another, except in physical makeup - the wights don't seem lesser in power or intelligence. Neither group seems very intelligent - they both seem zombie-like.Nah, apart from speaking as the patrol-leader does in the AGoT, the White Walkers are clearly intellingent, as demonstrated by their weapons and armour technology and the speed and skill with which they fight - in very marked contrast to the slow and clumsy wights. Just because no-one has yet sat down to have a philosophical discussion with them it doesn't make them in the least zombie like.Here's GRRM again:'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous. That aint zombie-like creatures of limited intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I would so love it for the Stark children to be reunited again though i doubt that will be the case. Rickon and Sansa will definitely live at the end. Bran and Jon won't be dead but they'll be dead to everyone else and only Sam will know what happened.Arya is 50/50 have no clue what's going to be her end but she'll have her share of dead bodies :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Nah, apart from speaking as the patrol-leader does in the AGoT, the White Walkers are clearly intellingent, as demonstrated by their weapons and armour technology and the speed and skill with which they fight - in very marked contrast to the slow and clumsy wights. Just because no-one has yet sat down to have a philosophical discussion with them it doesn't make them in the least zombie like.Here's GRRM again:'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous. That aint zombie-like creatures of limited intelligence.Which is why I like to think of them as kind of a corporeal death-- Death Incarnate--not evil (or really with morals at all) but just an aspect of Life that we all must face eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Eh, I think it would be cruel to kill off more Starks... but, yeah - Jon certainly has that crow raven shrieking Corn, King hanging over him... :crying: but, come the dawn, we shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Well I have pointed out before that the White Walkers are also referred to (and right at the beginning too, in the AGoT prologue) as White Shadows and may therefore be an Ice counterpart to Mel's black shadows. - although if they are, they're much more substantial (and chattier) than Mel's short-lived creations.But maybe Melisandre's shadows would last longer north of the wall where it is colder, i.e. they dissolve because it is too warm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Which is why I like to think of them as kind of a corporeal death-- Death Incarnate--not evil (or really with morals at all) but just an aspect of Life that we all must face eventuallyYou know, this makes sense. Death wouldn't need an intellect or morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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