Black Crow Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Eh, I think it would be cruel to kill off more Starks... but, yeah - Jon certainly has that crow raven shrieking Corn, King hanging over him... :crying: but, come the dawn, we shall see...We will indeed, but I pointed out earlier Jon has already been acknowledged King and then put into the earth, ie; "killed" and will in due course rise again, perhaps this time to make it to the end of the Song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chequered Raven Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Others and wights - they bother me. The Others seem to be strong and intelligent, in a predator-type way. The wights are also strong and predatory. The Others can be killed with obsidian and the wights with fire. So far, I don't see how the wights are less powerful than the Others. I know that the Others seem to create the wights (which we haven't seen from a first-person POV) and use them for their Other purpose (as an attack force), but do the Others do this because there aren't enough Others and they need more soldiers? And why aren't there more Others? We haven't really seen the Others exhibit intelligence other than a predatory canniness - they can hunt you down and kill you, but they don't really do anything else that we've seen. I know on Heresy we think Others are sidhe-like, which implies some preternatural intellect, but we haven't seen it. And we haven't seen any real intellect from the wights, either. To me, they don't seem very different from one another, except in physical makeup - the wights don't seem lesser in power or intelligence. Neither group seems very intelligent - they both seem zombie-like.No!The Others have a language, they comunicate (Prologue, GoT)The Others use weapons (swords), which seems to be even superior than human swords.And - the Others "make" the whights, not vice versa.Reanimating dead creatures seems not to be a task for stupid ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We will indeed, but I pointed out earlier Jon has already been acknowledged King and then put into the earth, ie; "killed" and will in due course rise again, perhaps this time to make it to the end of the Song.I see that as an option as well, if not as the option, but try not to think on it too hard or talk about it too often as not to jinx it :stunned:Edit - Forgot the italics. Mucho importanto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hm, think I finally found an accurate rendering of the CotF. And the quote just fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hm, think I finally found an accurate rendering of the CotF. And the quote just fits.Har!But yeah, the quote fits a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Scarily close. I wonder if by any chance they are related.Gods, here we are nearly halfway through the thread in less than 48 hours. Time I think to go and lie down in a darkened room.Good night all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Eh, I think it would be cruel to kill off more Starks... but, yeah - Jon certainly has that crow raven shrieking Corn, King hanging over him... :crying: but, come the dawn, we shall see...And there's the Cu Chulainn comparisons as well, particularly at the end of Storm. Jon has just been elected LC, and as he's leaving the Hall, he has Ghost walking at his side and Mormont's Raven perched on his shoulderETA: there is also all that Kill the Boy stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wing Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Night, BC!Just popped by the Not a Blog page I linked, and GRRM has commented again, so I guess best keep checking...And, yeah, the Avatar image is scarily close... wonder if GRRM should sue :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It looks like the COTF got busy with some giants :eek:Edit: Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 No!The Others have a language, they comunicate (Prologue, GoT)The Others use weapons (swords), which seems to be even superior than human swords.And - the Others "make" the whights, not vice versa.Reanimating dead creatures seems not to be a task for stupid ones...I'm truly not trying to troll, but I don't see the Others as necessarily quite so advanced. I think they probably ARE, because GRRM has hinted, and I hope they are, because otherwise, what's the point? But textually, we see them gibbering, we see them wearing special armor and carrying special swords. We don't see them making the armor or the swords, and we don't see anything of their civilization. You can put special armor on a horse, but that doesn't make it an advanced entity.Like I said, I hope they're something special, because there's been a lot of buildup. I just don't see it yet. I do like the idea of them being a non-moral entity representing winter or death or ice or cold. An entity like this wouldn't need to be especially intelligent or advanced - they'd be like a force of nature. (But the armor and swords have to come from somewhere. Are there Other forges and armories?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We see them gibbering only because we don't understand the language. They also seem to be quite polite and have at least some warrior culture (only one engaging Ser Waymar in a duel with others watching).The smart part is of course that once they have wights, they need not stick their necks too forward. Let the wights break the Fist and then let's have fun with survivors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanother Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm truly not trying to troll, but I don't see the Others as necessarily quite so advanced. I think they probably ARE, because GRRM has hinted, and I hope they are, because otherwise, what's the point? But textually, we see them gibbering, we see them wearing special armor and carrying special swords. We don't see them making the armor or the swords, and we don't see anything of their civilization. You can put special armor on a horse, but that doesn't make it an advanced entity.Like I said, I hope they're something special, because there's been a lot of buildup. I just don't see it yet. I do like the idea of them being a non-moral entity representing winter or death or ice or cold. An entity like this wouldn't need to be especially intelligent or advanced - they'd be like a force of nature. (But the armor and swords have to come from somewhere. Are there Other forges and armories?)As you say, the armor etc has to come from somewhere. So if they're not intelligent themselves, who makes their armor/weapon and puts it on them? Someone has to be intelligent in any case, so it only makes sense to assume (and is supported by the text IMO) that it's them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlackBladder Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 New person here. The general idea I'm getting from these threads is that you guys think the Wall isn't there to keep things in or out but to connect two different worlds, would I be correct in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 New person here. The general idea I'm getting from these threads is that you guys think the Wall isn't there to keep things in or out but to connect two different worlds, would I be correct in that?That is one of the many, many theories we subscribe to, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViennaGirl Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 As you say, the armor etc has to come from somewhere. So if they're not intelligent themselves, who makes their armor/weapon and puts it on them? Someone has to be intelligent in any case, so it only makes sense to assume (and is supported by the text IMO) that it's them...Yeah. I guess it's more that I don't see a need for both Others AND wights from a storytelling point of view, unless they're dramatically different types of beings. GRRM is a good storyteller; therefore they must be different types of beings.I just feel like we haven't really seen the plot difference between them yet. From a plot point of view, they're both scary non-human humanoids which will kill you. Either type, by itself, would be terrifying, and so far, they seem to do the same thing (kill you). I'm frustrated by this. I'll quit arguing now, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 New Game of Thrones promo http://grrm.livejournal.com/312318.htmlNarrated by Aidan Gillen (Littlefinger). I especially like the little smirk by Tyrion at the end :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 New Game of Thrones promo http://grrm.livejour...com/312318.htmlNarrated by Aidan Gillen (Littlefinger). I especially like the little smirk by Tyrion at the end :devil:Hand are you trying to take the master of whispers job? Little wing is just fine. She already posted 2 links from there today, who'd thunk there would be a 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 We got a lot of new faces around here today, welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 It's my theory, based mostly on a feeling, that the WW are on the move against the world of men now because they somehow divined that Westeros was or was going to be in political and economic (in terms of food, anyway) chaos. I say this because every other supernatural or magic group we've encountered has oracles and seers, in particular, the WW polar opposites the R'hllor gang, so why shouldn't the WW have their own? I suspect that when Bran looked into the Heart of Winter, the Heart of Winter looked back, like Bran and BR looked back at Mel through the fire, an that's why he was so frightened.Clearly, the WW are among the most otherworldly beings encountered in the story so far and so, imo, they should have more supernatural power. Clearly, too, the timing of their big push is perfect, considering how there is no single power to unite the humans of Westeros against them, and how the means of fighting them has been all but forgotten. And there is no Stark in Winterfell.I agree that they should be regarded as a force of nature -- not so much the enemies of man but indifferent to man and therefore capable of both using men and disposing of men as suits their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys_The Transformed Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Welcome to Heresy. Yes, one of the theories we've discussed here, based on the Varamyr prologue is that they are (or were) indeed wargs, able to fly free without needing a host and that they assume corporeal form as and when required by binding together ice crystals in the cold air.So can we say Others are indestructible.When Sam thrusts obsidian in this corporeal form of the Other, only the form dissolves , and the warg , Other, inside the form flies above like a greenseer and returns to himself in the Heart of Winter... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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