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TalalOfDorne

Cersei, Lysa, and the Valonqar

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I have noticed this for a while but Cersei and Lysa seem to have a lot of similarities in their story lines and appear to be going in a similar direction.

1- Their dream husbands: Both of them seem to have hoped to marry another man. Cersei wanted Rhaegar and Lysa wanted LF. Both of them were let down.

2- Their actual marriages: They are both eventually part of a rather unhappy marriage.

3- Losing children: Cersei lost Joffrey. Lysa may not have lost a child but has suffered a number of miscarriages and had stillborns.

4- Widowing themselves: They both play a hand in ending their marriages.

5-: Paranoia: We see them starting to doubt everyone and alienating their own family as well

6- Death and betrayal:

Lysa: Betrayed by the man she thought had loved her.

Cersei: ???

What Im trying to get to is that they shared a lot of similar situations. But will they share the same way of death?

Does this reinforce that Jaime might be the Valonqar? She does think that he still loves her.

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Cersei and Lysa start drinking more, and Lysa grows stout, having lost much of her beauty while Cersei's dresses no longer fit her, because she is gaining weight from all the drinking. Lysa's uncle, the Blackfish, leaves her while Cersei's uncle, Kevan, also leaves her.

Like Lysa, Cersei will be killed by the man she loves, Jaime. Petyr kills Lysa after she tries to kill the girl Petyr is interested in, Sansa, while Jaime may kill Cersei after she tries to kill the woman he's interested in, Brienne.

ETA:

Lysa spoiled her son Robert like Cersei did with Joffrey. Lysa liked to keep Robert in the Eyrie where she felt safe while Cersei liked to keep Joffrey safe in the Red Keep during the BoBW.

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  • They were born the same year, and both have a much younger brother.
  • Both of their mothers died in childbirth.
  • Both had rather assertive fathers, which naturally resulted in daddy issues.

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Like Lysa, Cersei will be killed by the man she loves, Jaime. Petyr kills Lysa after she tries to kill the girl Petyr is interested in, Sansa, while Jaime may kill Cersei after she tries to kill the woman he's interested in, Brienne.

.

I like the idea of him killing her for Brienne. That will really take her by surprise.

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I like the idea of him killing her for Brienne. That will really take her by surprise.

It'd come as no surprise if Cersei tries to have Brienne killed after she learns of her relationship with Jaime, since a seven year-old Cersei killed her friend Melara when she learned that Melara was interested in Jaime.

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It'd come as no surprise if Cersei tries to have Brienne killed after she learns of her relationship with Jaime, since a seven year-old Cersei killed her friend Melara when she learned that Melara was interested in Jaime.

remind me when this happened? i don't remember it

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remind me when this happened? i don't remember it

Melara Hetherspoon was a late childhood friend of Cersei's. Cersei remembers her asking Maggy when she would marry Jaime. Maggy tells Melara:"Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close." Maggy refers to Melara's death as a "she", and close enough to smell her breath. Who else was in the room?

Melara died when she fell down a well, Cersei remembers she was not so silent in the well, though. She screamed and shouted." This implies that Cersei watched her die, meaning she pushed Melara down the well.

Try this thread.

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Melara Hetherspoon was a late childhood friend of Cersei's. Cersei remembers her asking Maggy when she would marry Jaime. Maggy tells Melara:"Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close." Maggy refers to Melara's death as a "she", and close enough to smell her breath.

"

Melara died when she fell down a well, Cersei remembers she was not so silent in the well, though. She screamed and shouted." This implies that cersei watched her die, meaning she pushed Melara down the well.

Try this thread.

cheers, makes sense, never thought about it that way, but the motivation makes sense

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Love this thread. Have always had a little Lysa/Cersei parallel in my mind.

Also, I do love the idea of similar deaths for them. I am a firm believer that Jamie will be the valonquar. I hadn't thought though that it would make the two train wrecks even more similar.

Lysa killed by Petyr, her first and only real love.

Cersei killed by Jamie. her first and only real love, if she is capable of love at all, I see some sociopath tendencies in Cersei ( and Joff).

My only disagreement is the post that said LF killed Lysa for Sansa. (Which is a great thought, considering the whole weirdness of LF's view of Sansa, she is part Sansa, part Cat, part "daughter" and desired lover)

The situation presented itself nicely for LF, but lets not fool ourselves. LF killed Lysa because it was just another move in the game. He is arguably one of the greatest players after all :)

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Love this thread. Have always had a little Lysa/Cersei parallel in my mind.

Also, I do love the idea of similar deaths for them. I am a firm believer that Jamie will be the valonquar. I hadn't thought though that it would make the two train wrecks even more similar.

Lysa killed by Petyr, her first and only real love.

Cersei killed by Jamie. her first and only real love, if she is capable of love at all, I see some sociopath tendencies in Cersei ( and Joff).

My only disagreement is the post that said LF killed Lysa for Sansa. (Which is a great thought, considering the whole weirdness of LF's view of Sansa, she is part Sansa, part Cat, part "daughter" and desired lover)

The situation presented itself nicely for LF, but lets not fool ourselves. LF killed Lysa because it was just another move in the game. He is arguably one of the greatest players after all :)

I'm not saying LF didn't plan on killing Lysa, but that he killed her after she tried to kill Sansa, sooner than he had wanted.

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Love this thread. Have always had a little Lysa/Cersei parallel in my mind.

Also, I do love the idea of similar deaths for them. I am a firm believer that Jamie will be the valonquar. I hadn't thought though that it would make the two train wrecks even more similar.

Lysa killed by Petyr, her first and only real love.

Cersei killed by Jamie. her first and only real love, if she is capable of love at all, I see some sociopath tendencies in Cersei ( and Joff).

My only disagreement is the post that said LF killed Lysa for Sansa. (Which is a great thought, considering the whole weirdness of LF's view of Sansa, she is part Sansa, part Cat, part "daughter" and desired lover)

The situation presented itself nicely for LF, but lets not fool ourselves. LF killed Lysa because it was just another move in the game. He is arguably one of the greatest players after all :)

Should I add that since Petyr was raised at Riverrun it made him a foster brother to Lysa? Also, he was younger than her. Lysa's own volanqar.

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Good analysis OP, et al. I hadn't made the connection between Lysa and Cersei before. Much like R+L=J, it seems obvious when all of these dots are connected in one thread.

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Should I add that since Petyr was raised at Riverrun it made him a foster brother to Lysa? Also, he was younger than her. Lysa's own volanqar.

Can't believe it didn't even cross my mind! Gahh! Excellent.

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An awesome thread, I never thought abot the similarities before as the two are very different otherwise. I'm just wondering whether these similarities are intentional or whether GRRM subconsciously used some cliches.

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An awesome thread, I never thought abot the similarities before as the two are very different otherwise. I'm just wondering whether these similarities are intentional or whether GRRM subconsciously used some cliches.

I would guess they are intentional, because there are just too many similarities to be explained by subconsciously shared cliches - nothing in the "bad stepmother" trope that includes having a trial by combat against Tyrion, abortions, losing one's mother to the childbed, or being murdered by your loverbrother.

And yes, this thread deserves a medal.

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