Littlefinger's Downfall

[Waylin Stark]

Sansa. It needs to be Sansa to bring him down somehow, and Oh - how satisfying that will be.

Yep, Sansa's gonna DESTROY Littlefinger ... and it's gonna be so sweet ...

[Mjoll]

I don't care how he falls so long as Sansa is involved and is the main element. The justice is too poetic for it not to happen. Felled by his own protege. Do it, GRRMartin, do it! Please.

[Pinkie Baelish]

It needs to be Sansa, but I would prefer if it happens quite late in the series-hopefully at around the end of the TWOW.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Snip.

And according to this SSM, GRRM has said that LF is not as powerful as many think and that he will run into trouble:

1. Who is over lord of the Riverlands? (Since the Freys have Riverrun yet Littlefinger was named Lord Paramount).

George says that Littlefinger is the Lord of the Riverlands but that he is going to run into trouble. I commented that Littlefinger is really powerful now that he has the Riverlands and supposed control of the Eyrie. GRRM laughed and said that I need to remember that for all his power Littlefinger has no army. (I thought that was interesting).

So the scenario you spell out fits with GRRM's own assessment of LF's situation.

[western wolf]

I think that Sansa will betray him, and I also think that is the most appropriate.

I thought the Redwynes poisoned Joffrey, and LF merely provided the poison?

[Lyanna Stark]

It's going to be Sansa, somehow. The maiden slaying the "savage giant" in the snow castle — it refers to Sansa and Baelish (whose actual family sigil is the Titan of Braavos) at either Winterfell or the Eyrie. The doll and the mini snow Winterfell were a feint.

Yep, this. The Ghost at High Heart told us about the snow Winterfell scene where Sansa impales a giant's head above the gates of Winterfell, but that scene itself points forward, and foreshadows Sansa offing Littlefinger.

Sansa also has enough grievances against Littlefinger to last a life time and longer: he persuaded Joff to behead Ned, he managed to frame Tyrion and by extension Sansa for regicide and he's now posing as her father/tutor/ "lover" :ack: while trying to actively isolate her from anyone who could assist her.

I think that Sansa will betray him, and I also think that is the most appropriate.

I thought the Redwynes poisoned Joffrey, and LF merely provided the poison?

LF tells Sansa partly how it was done and from Tyrion's POV at the purple wedding we can figure out the rest. Margaery Tyrell and Olenna Tyrell were most likely doing the actual poisoning with Olenna picking the amethyst out of Sansa's hairnet. It also seems Garlan may have been in on it as he react very "correctly" and very quickly. A minimum is that Olenna did it, but very, very likely that Margaery was also in on it since she needed to know when not to drink.

So sure, Olenna Tyrell was born a Redwyne, but apart from her, the Redwyne family does not seem to have been involved. It was a Tyrell plot, which they hatched together with Littlefinger.

[Eir]

Littlefinger always seemed to me a textbook example of the young, ambitious upstart trying to upset the balance of power, failing to realise when he's in over his head due to unforeseen forces, or because he completely underestimates the positive characteristics that could exist in a person (loyalty, honour, etc). He believes he can appeal to baser instincts (greed, lust, etc), and while he's been successful many times (Joffrey, the Gold Cloaks, Lyn Corbray if that was true), if a person inspires no loyalty by/in himself, his power eventually runs out. It's what separates a man like Littlefinger from say a Ned or a Jon--Littlefinger inspires absolutely no loyalty save from those he pays or blackmails, and that's the falsest sort of friendship. And it may not be "positive" qualities in his enemies that prove to be his undoing--though his injured pride and anger drove him to climb as high as he has, the pride in the more nobly-born lords and ladies around him could prevent him from climbing higher, or simply topple and destroy him completely, as opposed to a sense of justice or righteous anger. There's a reason these hierarchies and institutions endure--they're insular and while the members may hate each other, they hate outsiders even more.

Wow. I've seen you post a few times, and every time I'm dazzled by the things I've completely missed.

Is there any way I can get notified any time you post? :drunk:

Not sure if there's a notification system in place, but what I did was bookmark the page that tallies her most recent posts--anything new should show up there and it's definitely worth checking every so often. Go to "find content" to explore previous posts.

http://asoiaf.wester...age__tab__posts

(And I'm sorry if this sounds a little fangirl-y or strange, Tze--like many others, I just like to keep up with what you're written! :blushing:)

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

snip

I'll believe it when I see it. If it were as simple as just offing The Great One, you'd figure it would have been done already.

As for arrogance, he's always had it. See no reason to believe recent success has made him any less thorough.

[Blackfish Tully]

I actually asked two questions, and the first one was more important than the second. To repeat; what would the consequences be for killing LF?

Even though I think it's silly to base how powerful somebody is by how many people would avenge them I will answer your question. Lothor Brune and/or Oswell Kettleblack would kill you , they seem very loyal to Littlefinger . Lyn Cordray would almost certainly kill you. Cersie Lannister would be very angry at anybody for killing Littlefinger , she made it quite clear when discussing the Lords Declerant that she did not want Littlefinger harmed. Also we do not know what other allies Littlefinger has , he keeps his secrets close to his vest , we had no idea about Lyn Cordray until Sansa was able to fiqure it out.

[Blackfish Tully]

And according to this SSM, GRRM has said that LF is not as powerful as many think and that he will run into trouble:

Quote

1. Who is over lord of the Riverlands? (Since the Freys have Riverrun yet Littlefinger was named Lord Paramount).

George says that Littlefinger is the Lord of the Riverlands but that he is going to run into trouble. I commented that Littlefinger is really powerful now that he has the Riverlands and supposed control of the Eyrie. GRRM laughed and said that I need to remember that for all his power Littlefinger has no army. (I thought that was interesting).

So the scenario you spell out fits with GRRM's own assessment of LF's situation.

That's the rub isn't it . Littlefinger has all the pieces in place to be a major player in the game of thrones. He has the titles of Lord Paramount of the Riverlands , Lord Protector of the Vale and is the owner of Harrenhall and all it's lands. He has what seems to be a vast spy network and maybe be very wealthy. He is also very bright , even Varys seems to respect his intelligence, and seems to be very good at reading people and making long term plans but the one thing he lacks is any kind of military force to enforce his will and until he gets that he will only be shadow player. I'm sure Littlefinger knows this as well as we do so I forsee that in the next book we will see his plans unfold for him to try to build that army out of what Vale Lords and/or Riverlords he can get on his side . Maybe he will fail spectacularly but I look forward to seeing it unfold.

[Kyoti]

Even though I think it's silly to base how powerful somebody is by how many people would avenge them I will answer your question. Lothor Brune and/or Oswell Kettleblack would kill you , they seem very loyal to Littlefinger . Lyn Cordray would almost certainly kill you. Cersie Lannister would be very angry at anybody for killing Littlefinger , she made it quite clear when discussing the Lords Declerant that she did not want Littlefinger harmed. Also we do not know what other allies Littlefinger has , he keeps his secrets close to his vest , we had no idea about Lyn Cordray until Sansa was able to fiqure it out.

Lothor Brune and what army?

Oswell Kettleblack and what army?

Lyn Corbray is LF's man based only on the word of LF himself, and turning every situation to his advantage is LFs bread and butter. Also, him and what army?

Do you really think Cersei, with everything else that has happened, and all of her other problems would shed a tear if someone offed Littlefinger?

I don't even know how fruitful your answers will be since you clearly have a problem comprehending the questions I ask. This is not about avenging his death, this is about consequences for killing him. I stand firm behind my assessment that no one would rise against anyone in the Vale that killed LF, especially with Sansa right there telling how he killed Lysa, convinced her to poison Jon Aryn, and implicated the Lannisters in his assassination.

If you have no army, no love, no respect, no consequences for anyone who might kill you, AND someone knows all of your dirty secrets you have nothing. He played the game well for a man with none of the things that real power is based on, but when he dies he will die unmourned and nothing will happen except a few people pissing on his grave if they even care to do that.

[Kyoti]

I'll believe it when I see it. If it were as simple as just offing The Great One, you'd figure it would have been done already.

It hasn't been done already because he's not a threat to anyone except the people dumb enough to buy into his BS.

[Alice in Westeros]

Sansa. It needs to be Sansa to bring him down somehow, and Oh - how satisfying that will be.

It would be very satisfying, but I would also like it if it was someone who had no particular/personal motive to do so. Just like LF with Joffrey. Karmic retribution. Not that Joff needs to be avenge, but LF seemed way to proud of himself on this one. Plus that would be GRRM style.

[Light a wight tonight]

This, Sansa is incompetent when it comes to playing the Game of Thrones.

As would be any 14-year-old. She's apprenticing with the Master, though. And being competent at the Game of Thrones is more complex than offing someone, as witness Arya. I can see a few ways open for Sansa to either kill LF, have him killed, or bring him down.

[Blackfish Tully]

It seems to me that while Littlefinger's been laughing to himself about how successfully he's manipulated the Vale Lords, he might be in for a rather nasty surprise in TWOW. AFFC ended with Sansa and Sweetrobin descending from the (impossible to assault) Eyrie. The only reason Littlefinger had any power in the Vale in AFFC wasn't because the Vale Lords wanted to honor Lysa's wishes or because they all agreed Littlefinger was the right man for the job---it was because, ever since Lysa's death, Littlefinger was the person who had full physical control over Lord Robert. And given that Lord Robert was in the impregnable Eyrie, there was no way for any of the Vale Lords to militarily wrest Sweetrobin away from Littlefinger's grasp. Well, that changed at the end of AFFC, and it might not be a coincidence that GRRM ended the Vale plot with the descent to the Gates of the Moon---because Sweetrobin is now in a place controlled, not by Littlefinger, but by Lord Nestor Royce, and that plotline might have ended where it did because Lord Nestor's going to make his move in TWOW.

Littlefinger thinks he has Nestor Royce firmly under his control, and that Bronze Yohn is the real danger. He thinks that he's basically won over (or will soon win over) all of the other Lords Declarant---buying up Anya Waynwood's debt, for example. But while Bronze Yohn is a powerful lord, he isn't the Royce who's been ruling the Vale for the past decade and a half. And in a world like Westeros, Anya Waynwood owing Littlefinger money doesn't actually put her under his control, because a pretty obvious way for her to clear out her debt would be to just kill off Littlefinger (so Anya Waynwood gains more from his death than from his continued rulership of the Vale). In AGOT, Catelyn thought to herself that there was no way a Redfort would marry a bastard---yet now we're to believe the heir to the Vale (someone who, given Sweetrobin's physical ailments, stands an excellent chance of ascending to the title) is going to be allowed to marry a bastard? (And not even a king's bastard like Mya, but the bastard daughter of the grandson of a sellsword?) And the Knight of Ninestars shows up at a wedding that Littlefinger brokered . . . just because? My goodness, it's almost as if the Lords Declarant only want Littlefinger to think he's winning them over.

Way back in AGOT, the Blackfish said this of Nestor Royce:

The Blackfish is known for being a rather savvy guy. And when Catelyn meets Nestor, she thinks to herself:

Nestor Royce ruled the Vale for almost a decade and a half, was appointed to that position by Jon Arryn himself, and according to the Blackfish, it was believed by many in the Vale that Lord Nestor should become Lord Protector of the Vale. He's from the lesser branch of House Royce, but he's been wielding political power in the Vale for quite a while---although he held no lands himself, he was not viewed as some petty lordling. Littlefinger tells Sansa that Lysa thought Lord Nestor was "a rock" (not in a good way), but given that Lysa's judgment was clearly terrible, I'd say her disdain was probably a point in Lord Nestor's favor. This is the guy who presents the clearest danger to Littlefinger's position in the Vale, because due to his time ruling the Vale while Jon Arryn was in King's Landing, Lord Nestor is the most obvious candidate for replacing Littlefinger as Lord Protector, and while Littlefinger thinks that he's cleverly neutralized that danger . . . I'm not so sure he has.

We know from AFFC that Littlefinger thinks he's successfully bribed Nestor Royce---that by granting Lord Nestor the Gates of the Moon via his own power as Lord Protector (rather than having Lord Robert sign the grant), that Lord Nestor would have to support Littlefinger's position as Lord Protector or risk losing the Gates. But it seems to me that there's a pretty obvious logical flaw there, given that Lord Nestor himself is an obvious candidate to replace Littlefinger should Littlefinger fall. What, Lord Nestor is going to work to keep a rival candidate in power because if Lord Nestor replaces Littlefinger as Lord Protector, Lord Nestor will . . . somehow . . . lose the Gates of the Moon? In what universe does that make any sense at all?

Presumably, there's a reason the position of Keeper of the Gates of the Moon was never a hereditary position: because the Eyrie is physically uninhabitable during the winter. House Arryn has to descend to the Gates in the winter (House Stark, in contrast, didn't have to head to the Wolf's Den during winter; nor did House Targaryen have to head for Summerhall in any given season), so giving full control of the Gates away to a bannerman is pretty clearly unwise---it's basically begging for a winter coup (once House Arryn has put itself under the control of whoever "owns" the Gates, it's a simple matter to just take them hostage). This danger is especially strong when, as now, Lord Arryn is a child and the "regent" has no actual ties to House Arryn. Once Lord Nestor has the swords which the piece of paper Littlefinger signed allowed him to gather (as Lord Nestor now has the incomes associated with the Gates, he now has the ability to increase his military arsenal), why should Lord Nestor care that Littlefinger signed the paper that allowed him to do so in the first place? As everyone who's encountered Emmon Frey waving around his beloved piece of paper knows, the realities of who controls a place often have little to do with who signed what paper. (And honestly, given that Littlefinger has fewer knights working for him now than Nestor Royce probably had pre-grant, Nestor Royce could probably have taken down Littlefinger once winter came even without that grant, merely in his capacity of Keeper of the Gates of the Moon.)

Great post , I've never really thought of Nestor Royce as being any kind of real player in the books but your post has done a lot to change my mind . The next time I get the chance I am going to do some re-reading and pay more attention to his character. One question I would have would be that Nestor Royce was a good person to have as Steward and a good canidate for Lord Protector because he did not have any land nor hereditary titles so he was not a threat to the other Lords but since he now has both land and a title would he still be a good canidate for Lord Protector or would the other Lords have a problem with him becoming to powerful with both the Gates of the Moon and Lord Protector titles?

[Quiet Isle]

Actually the point I made it that his titles are meaningless because he has no love, no fear, and no respect. As soon as someone, anyone, realizes that killing Littlefinger will have exactly zero consequences someone will in fact kill him. Those other things don't change that fact. He is a fun character, but not one that has any staying power. He's gotten very far by lying, cheating, stealing, and murdering, but in the end he will die unmourned and unavenged.

For exactly the reasons that you have said above, it would be perfect if everyone turned their back on him and he offed himself by leaping out of the moon door. no tears here.

[Cinder Stark]

So Littlefinger is a financial genius and is the best player of the game of thrones , except for maybe Varys, so I assume that he is not a moron when it comes to military strategy. Tywin Lannister was neither a great Knight nor a man of honor but he was a great leader and Littlefinger can be one too.

He does not have to lead an army to victory he would have plenty of Lords who would be capable of leading the armies , he would just have come up with the overall plans and he is very good at long term planning. Tywin Lannister showed that there is a lot more to winning wars than winning battles. Who is smarter than Littlefinger? Who is better at reading people and getting them to do what he wants?

The Riverlords except for the Freys are deperate for somebody to lead them so if Littlefinger can convince them that he can bring them what they want ,especially revenge on the Freys , they will follow him.

LF according to the tex, has no concern with war, fighting, nothing. He's never lead men, the only battle he fought was against Brandon Stark, we know how that ended. You are making more of LF than the textual evidence provides. He's good with scamming but that's all and that's coming to an end. He has no real power, no bannermen, he's going down.

[Blackfish Tully]

LF according to the tex, has no concern with war, fighting, nothing. He's never lead men, the only battle he fought was against Brandon Stark, we know how that ended. You are making more of LF than the textual evidence provides. He's good with scamming but that's all and that's coming to an end. He has no real power, no bannermen, he's going down.

Littlefinger was a 15 year old boy fighting against a 20 year old man when he fought Brandon Stark , not many 15 year olds would have a chance against the older and stronger and very skilled Brandon Stark.

We have no idea what Littlefinger is concerned with he keeps his cards pretty close to his vest and only reveals his plans when he wants to.

Besides "scamming" he also a financial genuis and is also fantastic at reading situations and exploiting weaknesses. Look how easily he turned back the Lords Declarant. The most powerful Vale Lords with their armies came to throw Littlefinger out on his ass and it took him all of 15 minutes to turn the tables on them and sent them and their armies packing for home so I would not underestimate him.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I love this thread! (really any LF thread... :)) Lots of great posts here that I wanted to add my two cents to. Thought I'd throw these thoughts (some of them culled from my own posts in earlier threads) out there for everyone's consideration.

Sansa’s compelling motivation for being LF’s downfall is multifold and goes back two generations. To begin with, it never made sense to me that Brandon, hothead though he was, would storm into the Red Keep looking for Rhaegar, given Rhaegar's known estrangement from Aerys. Furthermore Brandon rode into KL demanding not his sister but Rhaegar’s blood. That must have been one inflammatory message he received on his way to Riverrun. Considering he learned about Lyanna's "abduction" shortly after his infamous duel with Littlefinger, I think a compelling case can be made that LF himself somehow learned of the abduction and sent the message to Brandon. The various theories of where Lyanna disappeared from can be put to work in favor of this. Let’s not forget LF would have been on the road between Riverrun and the Vale which is the most theorized locale for Lyanna’s disappearance. This was the beginning of LF’s revenge on the Stark family. Initially he may have had some malicious idea of getting rid of Brandon and having Cat turn to him. But he couldn’t have foreseen the death of Rickard Stark and Aerys calling for Ned’s and Robert’s heads and the ensuing war. Being unfamiliar with the Starks he also wouldn’t necessarily have predicted that Ned would take Catelyn in his brother’s place. After Cat ended up with Ned, LF used his influence with Lysa to rise to a position of prominence in the realm and ultimately to take the lead in the poisoning of Jon Arryn and implicating the Lannisters to the Starks.

One thing I've wondered about Littlefinger which could shed some light on his motives surrounding Jon Arryn and the Stark family is if he's descended from the Gulltown Arryns. In AFFC chapter 41, when describing the Vale succession to Sansa, he says:

"there are several branches of House Arryn scattered across the Vale, all as proud as they are penurious, save for the Gulltown Arryns, who had the rare good sense to marry merchants. They're rich but less than couth, so no one talks about them."

This seems in keeping with his flip, self-effacing manner about himself. Also, his first post in government was as Customs Collector in Gulltown and he is known to be connected to the merchant class. Here is Tyrion describing his rise to power in ACOK, chapter 17 (italics mine):

"And in the process, he moved his own men into place. The Keepers of the Keys were his, all four. The King's Counter and the King of Scales were men he named. The officers in charge of all three mints. Harbormasters, tax farmers, custom sergeants, wool factors, toll collectors, pursers, wine factors; nine of every ten belonged to Littlefinger. They were men of middling birth, by and large, merchant's sons, lesser lordlings, sometimes even foreigners, but judging from the results, far more able than their highborn predecessors"

Add to that the fact that marriage into a cadet branch of a great family could explain how LF's father came to be a minor lord as the son of a hedge knight. Also, you have LF's involvement in arranging a marriage between the proud but impoverished Lyonel Corbray and a Gulltown Arryn heiress. The Corbrays are deep in it and have been connected to the Baelish family since the great grandfather came from Braavos as a sellsword in the employ of the Corbrays. I just can't help thinking there is more there than meets the eye. It is Littlefinger after all.

I suspect the whole Harry the Heir thing to be bait and switch or misdirection. First of all, I don’t think we are supposed to believe Harry Hardyng would take Alayne Stone to wife. I believe somewhere LF even mentions the Sansa Stark reveal. We know LF assumes Sansa will be free to marry (Tyrion must be dealt with for that, which he’s made a start at with the Purple Wedding plotting) and Sweet Robin must die (LF states this unequivocally to Sansa in AFFC “When Robert dies”, while Sansa herself seems to be suspicious that SR is being slowly poisoned with sweetsleep) My guess is that LF’s endgame is a bethrothal or even a short marriage between Sansa and Harry who will tragically die in the manner of Arryn heirs, at which point LF is there to reveal his claim to the Vale and marry Sansa, in one fell swoop completing his claim to the North, the Vale and the Riverlands. Sansa's Tully connection could serve to cement his position as Lord Paramount of the Trident. If Edmure’s child dies and the Lannisters are overthrown, Sansa is the heir presumptive to Riverrun behind the Blackfish who is old, unmarried and currently missing. Sansa also has a Whent/Harrenhal connection which, while tenuous, LF may see as valuable. I'm sure he has a plan to deal with the Freys somehow, just haven't teased that out yet.

Back to Sansa’s motivations, LF’s machinations are ultimately responsible for Ned’s death. It’s likely he was the voice whispering in Joffrey’s ear to execute Ned. Indirectly and ironically this led to Catelyn’s death, as well as the rest of Sansa’s family (as far as she knows) Even her loathsome aunt Lysa and (we begin to suspect) poor pathetic Sweet Robin can be laid at his door.

But, in my estimation, LF has made three critical mistakes. He underestimates people: from Sansa herself to Brandon Stark and Nestor Royce, as tze so brilliantly noted above, and he seems to assume that Tyrion is or will be out of the picture and further (like most of the other people in story) that Sansa’s brothers are all dead. Those assumptions and underestimations, coupled with Sansa’s rage when she finally puts it all together (and as much as I’ve been very disappointed in her up to this point, I think she is showing signs of finding her inner Stark) will be his ultimate destruction.

It’s important to note that all of the above concerns Littlefinger’s motivations and endgame. As GRRM has noted in this SSM quoted by Ser Wun Wun above (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C92/P180) Petyr Baelish has virtually no military strength. He may be expert at the game of thrones but, as has been illustrated IRL by Henry Tudor in the WotR and in story by Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters, might makes right in the long run. This further miscalculation means he will not have the physical means to save himself when the rest of his mistakes catch up with him.

As so many have suggested above, I'm hoping they catch up with him in the vicinity of the Moon Door :devil:

[the Scorpion Knight]

....

the irony the people are playing LF tricks on him and he is unable to see that is funny imho

...

What I don't get is all the Petyr Baelish hate. Yeah he isn't the most honorable but what worth is honor? The Starks had plenty and now they're dead so fat lot of good it them. Do people really think he trusts Sansa enough to show her his entire hand? I doubt it. He lets Sansa know just as much as he wants her too, just enough to empower her and win her trust. Since we only see him ever so briefly and also from limited POV I think its fair to say one shouldn't under estimate Petyr Baelish. Alot of people have and now most of them are dead.

As to the "littlefinger has no allies" bit he seems to be on good terms with Tyrell and Highgarden, him and The Queen of Thornes are cut from the same cloth. I feel like if he was backed into a corner he and Sansa could call upon them, as a measure of last resort.

Personally I'm rooting for him to be one of the last men standing. He's cunning, dangerous, and clearly head and shoulders above almost everyone else as far as politics and intrigue go. Petyr Baelish isn't bound by honor or duty or petty allegiances to Liege lords or any one realm. He pits the warring factions together and carves new ones according to his whims and his needs at the moment. What his grander scheme is, who can say but him?

and from the other POV we KNOW the tide is turning against LF and he unable to stop it

the tyrells know he's a treacherous snake as know the lannisters tywin and kevan knew he is unable to hold the vale/riverlands

Lothor Brune and what army?

Oswell Kettleblack and what army?

Lyn Corbray is LF's man based only on the word of LF himself, and turning every situation to his advantage is LFs bread and butter. Also, him and what army?

Do you really think Cersei, with everything else that has happened, and all of her other problems would shed a tear if someone offed Littlefinger?

I don't even know how fruitful your answers will be since you clearly have a problem comprehending the questions I ask. This is not about avenging his death, this is about consequences for killing him. I stand firm behind my assessment that no one would rise against anyone in the Vale that killed LF, especially with Sansa right there telling how he killed Lysa, convinced her to poison Jon Aryn, and implicated the Lannisters in his assassination.

If you have no army, no love, no respect, no consequences for anyone who might kill you, AND someone knows all of your dirty secrets you have nothing. He played the game well for a man with none of the things that real power is based on, but when he dies he will die unmourned and nothing will happen except a few people pissing on his grave if they even care to do that.

not tomention that kettleblack and brune might turn against him(for diffrent reasons)

Littlefinger was a 15 year old boy fighting against a 20 year old man when he fought Brandon Stark , not many 15 year olds would have a chance against the older and stronger and very skilled Brandon Stark.

We have no idea what Littlefinger is concerned with he keeps his cards pretty close to his vest and only reveals his plans when he wants to.

Besides "scamming" he also a financial genuis and is also fantastic at reading situations and exploiting weaknesses. Look how easily he turned back the Lords Declarant. The most powerful Vale Lords with their armies came to throw Littlefinger out on his ass and it took him all of 15 minutes to turn the tables on them and sent them and their armies packing for home so I would not underestimate him.

you know brandon fought without amour and beat LF up without breaking a sweat or getting a scratch

LF is also known to missjudge persons( like the hound or that the mountain clans are A incredible danger to him )